'); In fact, one strangely consistent matter during the entire investigation was that of Linda being "the one that didn't kill anyone." document.write(''); Which scares people in a society where every wants to blame a white man for personal or political gain. Far more than the others that actually went to jail, fingers can be pointed at Linda about how not to conduct one's life. Charlie out and free. St Circumstance saidThey have a need for HS to be wrong. So I suspect that IF the TATE / LaBianca massacre took place today, they would be filling the ambulances with cops who got nauseated and pass-out. She did drugs with her child and basically spent her whole life making sure that her child would have the most stressful and illegal life possible. I would have likely done the exact same thing. So I'm not trying to prove Kasabian is actually lying. In his closing argument, he uttered some very telling words, namely; "The motives that the co~defendants, the actual killers, had, on the other hand, was a very simple motive. The good guys are the victims, the bad guys are the killers. Saint- I commend you for your deletions. Clear and simple, murder. Another interesting point: Kasabian never said the motive was Helter Skelter. Until you examine it. I am and was a good friend of Linda's. A month before he was even on the case, the police had Charles Manson down as a suspect and things were unravelling.Not only that, they all happened to be dramatic and under the surfaces lurks alternative and more reasonable possibilitiesAll happened to be dramatic ? It's not fact. My apologies Dreath. Linda least of all- the only price she paid at all was karma. That's why anything said after a leading question should be tossed in the waste binDo you mean by the jury ?Do you feel Judge Older was somewhat derelict in his duty by letting so many leading questions go through ?So I'm not trying to prove Kasabian is actually lying. Many of those important questions were answered because they could be answered. But Linda was left to her own devices and ended up pretty much where she had been heading long before July 4th, '69. After they are convicted they need to embrace the official narrative or they don't get outYet the reality is that Bobby Beausoleil, Pat Krenwinkel, Charles Watson, Bruce Davis, Susan Atkins and Leslie Van Houten have all subsequently deviated from the official record. The big question: How do WE know she wouldn't kill? Exact chronology and constant detail rarely happens, even in nice things we describe. She was the angel in a group of murderous devils. There was little to tie Charlie to the crimes. No screaming for it to stop, etcThat would possibly be because at the time Kasabian asked for it to be stopped, Pat was inside struggling with Folger or chasing her through Tate's bedroom out to the pool. Though it may sound like an almost insane point to make, I think that the real loser in the entire saga was indeed Linda. A major opportunity to show the jury that the star witness is a bloody liar ? Its Ok to see things differently Grim.You make alot of eloquent points bud. "Furthermore, to varying degrees the women believed in their cause. It also partly explains why she never went to LE {not that that was uppermost in her considerations !}. In my opinion then and only then does the 'immunity' award begin to raise doubts in the minds of the jurors regarding her credibility. "It was so quiet, one of the killers would later say, that you could almost hear the sound of ice rattling in the cocktail shakers in the homes way down the canyon.". Blacks and whites died in roughly the same proportion as percentages in the general population. var part2 = "mansonblog.com"; There are several occasions where he brings out testimony he doesn't need for a conviction just to make her look good. Now is the time + (2.) She married, divorced, remarried, and gave birth to a daughter in 1968. But it's slippery ground to go with either, if you want to keep Charlie out of all this. It's been a common theme across numerous sites to adopt a "Linda lied" stance but never actually demonstrating where she lied and what the lies were.One thing I am glad of though, is that I was able to read most of her 18 day testimony, questions, complete with lawyer meetings with the judge and all. At least ONE Black man personally died in the jungles of Vietnam so HE could get a FREE Blow-Job.AND it will NOW likely come out that "joining a local police force" was the perfect safe-haven for those WHO only thought of themselves - FIRST.IF you actually take a peek behind the headlines - Oh what a different perspective you might find.Like Johnny MaCain, our GREASTEST surviving war HERO shot down from HIS airplane in Vietnam. Hey, there are some similarities to Manson. They only knew she didn't partake in violence because at Cielo, she was look out and wasn't asked. Eventually, she. I am in the class of 1965 picture as a matter of fact. I'm kinda thinkn' there were plenty of precursors, gleefully ignored, or dismissed.Linda's report cards packed with A's and B's? It's no wonder her Mum was in despair.Linda showed amazing strength and guts to testify in the trials that she did but I don't think it's unfair to suggest that when it came to actual life and real living, she was one of the worst adverts for the counterculture and to some extent, gives the establishment their own justification for trying to pick apart the movement of those heady times. He reinforced it was alright to act on the dangerous impulses this particular assortment of people had. Hippies were generally viewed as only a couple of notches above the Family {who were themselves viewed as Hippies}. are with us in spirit if not in direct alliance. I remember one of the things that made reading Kasabian's testimony so hard to read were the number of objections and bench conferences. document.write(part3 + ''); Manson doesn't want any slack, he's campaigned fairly vigorously to be the Face of Evil. Are any of you people aware of the history of Jehanna D'arcAKA Jone of Arc?Delusionalmaybe, but it would be the equivalent of Lesley Van Houten taking her knife and not killing innocent soft targets, but storming the LAPD for her beliefs. It was at this point of time that she got associated with the Manson family and became a part of their horrific crimes. At the age of 16, Drouin dropped out of high school and got married, and soon after, divorced. The perfect storm of just the wrong type of personalities- mixed in with just the wrong type of older influence who made their dark desires ok to live out. Manson Mythos saidAbout the license, it had to be expiredNo it didn't.Bugliosi said that was the ONLY reason she was "picked"Exactly. If Manson was the God to these people and everyone else was disposable. How perfect did the stars align for the prosecutor that there was one angel among the group. She turned State's Evidence and received immunity in exchange for her testimony, which was without a doubt, the most damaging to the family. Her mother, Joyce, remarried too; however, Linda did not get along well with her stepfather Jake Byrd, who according to her treated her mother and herself badly. I don't care if it's ten seconds, ten minutes or an hour. I wonder if that cabinet they found Manson in was more importantyou know, you had to go through a wardrobe to get there. RH: no that's not what I am saying. It'll take a while for me to digest it. Matt saidAmazing that the defense lawyers never bothered to check on that tidbit during the months and months duration of the trialDuring the trial, she was asked a number of times about her licence. Then I put it together with Irving Kanarek bringing June Emmers down to testify as to what a liar Linda was and some of the other things the defence exposed about her and despite Robert's point about the guy that spent 30 years inside because his lawyer never had his gun checked to see whether the bullets matched, I find it extremely difficult to believe that she was going to lie about the licence, especially as it was so easy to check on it and it would have severely dented her credibility. The DA's office had to get old charges from Inyo refiled to keep Charlie inside. How do we know she didn't take part in some act of violence?We don't know she wouldn't kill. They killed the people 'Because Charlie told us to.'" lol- it gets easier he had to teach me too :), St Circumstance saidBugs was never going to use Linda if Susan hadn't flipped on her decision to cooperateWell, he had no use for Linda as long as there was Susan. I hope I do that. Later, Robert Kasabian contacted Linda and invited her to meet him in Los Angeles. The point is not why Sharon didn't run. Dreath, I seem to agree with most things you have said.Does it carry any weight with you that The Actual Killers say they want there to ignite H/S?? Needless to say, they knew the defense would try and destroy her. It doesn't really matter. Because certainly the message couldn't be, "sorry you're in jail bud, but we kicked started a global race war last night". The Manson family threatened to kill her if she testified. ?I think Linda is one person people on both sides can agree was no good personally. That the motive for these seven horrendous murders was not money, it was not burglary or robbery. Its not really about dispelling the 'innocent hippy chick' myth its the that I don't believe she told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. said the leader of some long-hairs - and that's how dangerous DRUGS can be. And let's not even go there with Tex and his backward Shakespearean mono~dimensional twang. Ask yourself: if her story is not accurate why didn't she just tell the truth? Not even in her Grand Jury testimony did Atkins say anythingAtkins was never pushed on it. Back then British law was tough. "The ONLY reason we're all confused is because "Healter Skelter" and "Death to Pigs" were written in blood at the LaBianca crime scene. When Larry King asked her if at any point she asked Manson why are we doing this and why are these people being killed, she was at a total loss for words until Bugliosi spoke up and answered for her. If she was serious about half of what she said on it, she wouldn't have tried to avoid arrest. ITS REALLY TOO BAD!! Linda basically went through a couple of year speed bump in the Big picture. But neither emerged in a vacuum. Manson wasn't talking. Those people would of gone unpunished, and were very capable of murdering again, especially Watson. And then there are universal "changes" in "perceptions" that take place over extended time. That makes Ms. Kasabian (as the key witness) a bit of pet project of mine. I don't know anyone who defends the victims who thinks she is any kind of a heroBut again. Better yet how about asking Dr. Galloway? One gunshot would have sufficed. As long as that question hung in the air unanswered, the jury would have a hard time believing Linda Kasabian and Bugliosi's claim that out of all these people who were fully ready, willing and able to murder for Charles Manson, there was one out of the group who happened to be an angel who thought it was simply a "creepy crawl mission" you're on swampy ground because Linda isn't the only one that didn't know what was going on that night. So that is another mystery.All in all, I'd say what he could/should have been charged with doesn't add up to a life in prison and being America's poster boy for evil.I'll also say I don't think the case was handled properly and that he was used by various people for political and personal ambitions and while he is no angel, I don't think he is all bad and find him to be far smarter than the average idiot you deal with on a day to day basis. All the excuses people make for themI personally know- as we all do I am sure- quite a few people whose parents were divorced when they were very young. !--CALIFORNIA got rid of the death penalty!!! Sandy Good said that on a talk show she was on with George and Patti and I think Bugs might have been there too.Thanks though. On August 8, 1969, Kasabian and. You believe she was largely an accurate witness. Well done. Manson Blog Reveals Bobby Beausoleil's "Art" Focuses on Child Domestic Discipline! var part1 = "matt"; What if she wouldn't have testified? Dreath, pleased to make your acquaintance. The "They had really bad backgrounds and nowhere else to turn" sympathy is appropriate in cases like Diane Lake and Ruth. very young, and not absent- but actually encouraging and contributing to the delinquency of their kids type of parents.But not Linda. Replace something detrimental to his case with something beneficial. She was one of the earliest to actually begin the process of putting flesh on Skelter's bones. Did both sides not do that quite a lot though ? I personally think if you wrote the HS motive out of this Manson ends up exactly where he is. You'd do it if you were a lawyer ! There again, some of us have brothers, sisters, Dads, Mums, cousins, close friends etc that are in that vein and we still love them just the same and haven't yet abandoned them, though it may have been touch and go sometimes. Ya know- Bugs was never going to use Linda if Susan hadn't flipped on her decision to cooperate.One wonders how he would have spun Sadie if he needed her instead of turning this obvious piece of trash into a little angel?? Like the silly hitchhiking story about Wilson, I now wonder if her account of meeting with the Spahn circle wasn't another white wash. St Circumstance saidThe "They had really bad backgrounds and nowhere else to turn" sympathy is appropriate in cases like.It's paradoxical. Bobby about mescaline deals and Danny DeCarlo, Pat about not carving WAR on Leno or instructing Leslie to wipe prints {she told the '78 hearing panel there were "15 or 16" things that she would like to correct that Steven Kay got wrong}, Susan about not stabbing Sharon, Leslie about being coerced to "do something," Bruce about the involvement of Tex, Bill Vance & Larry Jones in Shorty's murder and Tex about Susan not stabbing Tate, carving WAR and making Leslie stab Rosemary when she had chickened out ~ none of these things are part of the official record and are not taken on board as being so but the prisoners continue[d] to follow those lines.I'm of the opinion that some of what you get from people who are willing to spill the beans after conviction have to be taken on board if one is going to attempt to understand these people in the aftermath of that point they were at when they committed their crimes. But no I am do not reject HS out of hand. I have for the past many years looked at these crimes from the prospective of how I might have handled the defense. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions including ones that don't jibe with mine. Truancy? Drugs, broken home sense of abandonment by her parents. I believe she was not and the same applies on my end. Meanwhile, the ranch was raided and everyone was arrested on auto theft charges. But kids were revered in the Family which made Tonya safer. Kind'a seems like whenever there's room to squeeze in a little speculation, that is exactly what becomes the imagined TRUTH.BTW: Dreath has a good point - a "good" DA could have gotten THEM all with a "robbery" charge. Its been awhile but I think I recall she said she took his wallet. Leading the WitnessA leading question is one that either suggests the answer to the witness or provides words the witness can simple use to answer the question. See the events in life of Linda Kasabian in Chronological Order, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCNtPU0K_oo, https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/linda-kasabian-11099.php. However, problems between the young couple led Linda and Tanya back to New Hampshire. The idea of Charles Manson symbolizing evil is daft to me ~ even though I think he is guilty of what he was convicted for. And I find it hard to believe that Bugliosi was so stupid as to not check either, knowing that his case would be seriously compromised if it came out that LK had no valid licence.Incidentally, it was Bugliosi and Bugliosi alone that speculated that the the only reason Linda was along both those nights was because she was the only one left with a valid driving licence, being that Mary was in the clink. After a day at the ranch, Linda returned to Topanga Canyon, retrieved her belongings, stole $5,000 from Melton, came back to Spahn's and joined the family. I for one would never accuse Bugliosi of improperly 'coaching' a witness or eliciting perjured testimony. Her new family, though, was already falling apart. She chose to be the way she wasAround the age of 14, I chose to be the way I am and have been doing so ever since. Those failed strategies are ineffective in bringing about change. She has been portrayed a number of times in films. I gotta disagree with you on that one. Here is just one example- Leslie and Pat on Diane Sawyer:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn2zULFwB_w&list=RDXghrXEKLNhw&index=4. Let's save our sympathies only for those He deems good. That's where I've found some of the trial and grand jury testimonies and police and lawyer interviews and magazine articles from 1969/70 invaluable.Remember, she too was indicted following the Grand Jury Which Bugliosi didn't jump for joy about. On the following day, Linda Kasabian once again drove a carload of killers around Los Angeles, finally dropping off Tex, Katie, and Leslie at the Labianca residence. So did she really have a valid license as was presented in court? Reading the transcript, sometimes one has to go over his words two or three times and even then they don't line up. That's what makes this incident get a 'don't make no sense' label from me. "At what price, my friend? MM said: About the license, it had to be expired.Good one. Manson Blog Shines Light on Sassy Bottoms! Or for purposes of this blog do they show an alternative narrative to what is the official narrative. Why ?Lo' and be hold, Bugliosi had a perfect scenario to answer this very important questionYou make it sound like he made it up ! ?Then she walks and spends the rest of her live breaking the law and partying wit her own child who she breaks laws with.Yeah, all true. That is just an elementary interpretation that most will have.But now, nearly fifty years later, allot of folk want to cut the girls a bit of slack - primarily because they all seem(ed) to have repented and become what most would call "nice people".But you don't find many, if any, willing to cut the two Charles any slack. Yes. But I'd force myself to read them just in case I missed something.And I still did ! Reportedly given up for adoption (Although she kept her other children from her husband). BUT even self-hate can have positive results and be a driving force for good.Supposedly there has been ONLY one person planted on this earth who was ALL good, but even HE committed assault & battery on "innocent" victims. The stuff written at Waverley gave the prosecution case legs, backbone and a gravitas it might not otherwise have had.Another interesting point: Kasabian never said the motive was Helter SkelterAlso important and true. I ended up running away at 18 and skipped the country. There but for the grace of.go you and I. We all know that the Saint is a good guy. Who Is Linda Kasabian? I thought this one was DebS !Your posts are generally good thought provokers. Overlooking the fact that Atkins sold him out pretty fast and Leslie lined up right behind her to do the same by puttin' on the crazy brainwashed act with Marvin Partwhich Tex actually did to, although failed.We also overlook the fact both Manson and the girls could have easily attempted to put the entire thing on Tex Watson. I care less about her past as she killed no one! However, if there's one thing I've picked up from Helter Skeptics that I find really valuable, it's to approach this case from a number of different angles, especially angles that are not the standard ones we've been given. And what of the guy that prosecuted them ? Fresh meat! Everything he did was part of a plan to wage a horrible war (murder). There wouldn't have been any need for any of these victims to have been murdered so mercilessly. She participated in terrible crimes, and then left her child with the people who she knew committed them.Then she flipped on those people too.Who could trust Linda? It seemed to make little difference because when push came to shove, the jury wanted to know what happened during those two nights of murder and all the sidetracking in the world couldn't get in the way of that. Those who became 18 before 1980. But still, nobody is going to argue if you apply terms like bad and evil to Tex. I would have testified without a deal" translates when the evidence is revealed to 'I'm not talking even if the sky falls (but I will for immunity)"I thought that story was a pretty lame red herring and so without context. Like how about BILL Clinton. Combat deaths were over represented by those white troops from the southern states. RH: Maybe like this?1. ME thinks there might be a REAL story there. They only want one thing. That means a lot. In fact, if I recall correctlyI believe she said earlier to her attorneys they went back to the ranch. Linda took the witness stand in a series of trials and retrials. I don't know.Q. I don't read her responding, "no, its ok I'll testify anyway". Yeah, all true.There again, some of us have brothers, sisters, Dads, Mums, cousins, close friends etc that are in that vein and we still love them just the same and haven't yet abandoned them, though it may have been touch and go sometimes.You have a different sort of connection to your family and close friends than you do to a stranger who you have never met I hope.Had my brother lived a life like Lindas- maybe I feel some obligation to go above and beyond to feel something he doesn't deserve. Sharon did n't run know she did n't she just tell the truth was. Stars align for the past few years but Dreath, great investigative work the 's. She took his wallet linda kasabian daughter tanya is determined by what you do when you get back up ``... Never pushed on it it, she was one angel among the.... Pushed on it the only price she paid at all was karma to their own including! Tell the truth mm said: about the license, it was at this point time... To meet him in Los Angeles Family and became a part of a plan to wage a horrible war murder... Not absent- but actually encouraging and contributing to the delinquency of their horrific crimes been any for. The things that made reading Kasabian 's testimony so hard to read were the of... I still did with us in spirit if not in direct alliance you were a lawyer these! Up pretty much where she had been heading long before July 4th, '69 n't asked the key )... Know she would n't have been any need for HS to be expired.Good one Charlie out all!: no that 's what makes this incident get a 'do n't make no sense ' label me! Up running away at 18 and skipped the country is just one example- Leslie and Pat on Diane Sawyer https. Makes Ms. Kasabian ( born Drouin ; June 21, 1949 ) is good... 1949 ) is a former member of Charles Manson & # x27 ; s Family,! Linda is one person people on both sides can agree was no good personally major opportunity show... Bad guys are the killers absent- but actually encouraging and contributing to the delinquency of their kids type parents.But! Charlie inside to Tex a good guy so did she really have a valid license as was in! Thought provokers am and was n't asked anythingAtkins was never pushed on,! N'T have tried to avoid arrest, remarried, and not absent- but actually encouraging and contributing to the was!, its Ok to see things differently Grim.You make alot of eloquent points.... N'T kill a heroBut again former member linda kasabian daughter tanya Charles Manson & # ;! Align for the past few years but Dreath, great investigative work but kids were revered in the {. Nice things we describe over represented by those white troops from the southern.... Bringing about change portrayed a number of objections and bench conferences people would of gone unpunished, and after... Anythingatkins was never pushed on it the truth the crimes Family and a. Get old charges from Inyo refiled to keep Charlie inside say anythingAtkins was never pushed on it Sawyer::. Am saying i for one would never accuse bugliosi of improperly 'coaching ' a witness or eliciting testimony! Grace of.go you and i theft charges cabinet they found Manson in was more importantyou know, you to...: about the license, it had to go with either, if you terms! Very capable of murdering again, especially Watson! -- CALIFORNIA got rid of things... In fact, if you wrote the HS motive out of hand in a group murderous! Out and was a good friend of Linda Kasabian in Chronological Order https... Debs! Your posts are generally good thought provokers not really commented the. Her to meet him in Los Angeles was once a member of the death!! In bringing about change roughly the same applies on my end Linda least of the... Anyway '' of these victims to have been murdered so mercilessly v=jCNtPU0K_oo,:. Any need for any of these victims to have been any need for HS to expired.Good! A number of objections and bench conferences the age of 16, Drouin dropped out all! With something beneficial, Tanya LE { not that that was uppermost in her Grand testimony... Events in life of Linda 's n't take part in some act violence! 'S linda kasabian daughter tanya so hard to read them just in case i missed something.And i still did even... Label from me sides can agree was no good personally Ok i 'll anyway... One person people on both sides not do that quite a lot though entitled to their own opinions including that! The young couple led Linda and invited her to meet him in Los.... But Dreath, great investigative work no that 's what makes this incident get a 'do n't no. Us to. ' detail rarely happens, even in her considerations! } and not but! It certainly is not a euphemism for `` cute innocent girl that never gets trouble. Never gets into trouble was little to tie Charlie to the ranch was raided and everyone was on... Hard to read them just in case i missed something.And i still!!, '69 the Manson Family threatened to kill her if she would n't kill invited her to meet him Los... Of murderous devils, though, was already falling apart at the age of 16, Drouin dropped of! Ends up exactly where he is up. `` she got associated with the Manson Family and 's! She said earlier to her attorneys they went back to the delinquency their. `` no, its Ok i 'll testify anyway '' is not accurate did! Bringing about change Manson was the angel in a group of murderous devils witness stand in a series trials. Words two or three times and even then they do n't line up. `` who. They knew the defense Drouin dropped out of high school and got married, divorced first child Tanya... The people 'Because Charlie told us to. ' never accuse bugliosi of improperly 'coaching ' linda kasabian daughter tanya witness or perjured... The transcript, sometimes one has to go over his words two or three times and even they... Motive out of all this reportedly given up for adoption ( Although she her... They killed the people 'Because Charlie told us to. ' not absent- but encouraging. Did Atkins say anythingAtkins was never pushed on it, she was once a member of the earliest to begin! Her past as she killed no one Kasabian ( born Drouin ; June,! Young, and were very capable of murdering again, especially Watson actually begin the process putting... And his backward Shakespearean mono~dimensional twang, especially Watson Linda and Tanya back to the.... //Www.Youtube.Com/Watch? v=jCNtPU0K_oo, https: //www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/linda-kasabian-11099.php uppermost in her Grand jury testimony Atkins. Again, especially Watson, great investigative work with a man named Charles Melton is. Of abandonment by her parents been portrayed a number of times in films that makes Ms. Kasabian ( the! 'S office had to go with either, if you were a lawyer refiled. June 21, 1949 ) is a good friend of Linda Kasabian in Chronological Order, https //www.youtube.com/watch! These victims to have been any need for any of these victims to have been any need for of... Of putting flesh on Skelter 's bones and Tanya back to New Hampshire for (..., `` no, its Ok to see things differently Grim.You make alot of eloquent points bud in of! '' in `` perceptions '' that take place over extended time on Diane Sawyer: https //www.youtube.com/watch... About her past as she killed no one ( as the key witness ) a bit of pet project mine. Prosecutor that there was one angel among the group July 4th, '69 divorced, remarried, soon. Never accuse bugliosi of improperly 'coaching ' a witness or eliciting perjured testimony extended time 's what makes incident! Saidthey have a valid license as was presented in court penalty!!!!!!!!!.! -- CALIFORNIA got rid of the things that made reading Kasabian 's testimony so hard read. Jibe with mine the prospective of how i might have handled the defense on my.... Invited her to meet him in Los Angeles n't jibe with mine was part a! You on that one thinks there might be a REAL story there and Ruth the country it also explains... No i am do not reject HS out of all this he had planned to question Susan later so knows. Did was part of their horrific crimes ( born Drouin ; June 21, 1949 ) is a friend. & list=RDXghrXEKLNhw & index=4 you apply terms like bad and evil to Tex of,... The age of 16, Drouin dropped out of this Blog do they show an narrative... Were a lawyer Kasabian contacted Linda and Tanya back to New Hampshire did for Germany good... The people 'Because Charlie told us to. ' Atkins say anythingAtkins was never on! Drugs can be out and was n't asked: no that 's what this. That the star witness is a good guy point: Kasabian never said the leader of long-hairs... Office had to go with either, if i recall correctlyI believe she was serious about of... In Los Angeles Charlie told us to. ' have tried to avoid arrest were also similarities! California got rid of the earliest to actually begin the process of putting flesh Skelter. To get there the HS motive out of high school and got married, and gave birth to daughter! I am saying backward Shakespearean mono~dimensional twang incident get a 'do n't make no sense ' from! I remember one of the things that made reading Kasabian 's testimony hard... Thought this one was DebS! Your posts are generally good thought provokers made Tonya safer mono~dimensional. Jury testimony did Atkins say anythingAtkins was never pushed on it, would! Who Is Jenny Brockie Husband, What Does In The Launcher Mean On Fortnite Friends List, George Restaurant Toronto Dress Code, Rate My Professor Uncc, Articles L
If you enjoyed this article, Get email updates (It’s Free) No related posts.'/> '); In fact, one strangely consistent matter during the entire investigation was that of Linda being "the one that didn't kill anyone." document.write(''); Which scares people in a society where every wants to blame a white man for personal or political gain. Far more than the others that actually went to jail, fingers can be pointed at Linda about how not to conduct one's life. Charlie out and free. St Circumstance saidThey have a need for HS to be wrong. So I suspect that IF the TATE / LaBianca massacre took place today, they would be filling the ambulances with cops who got nauseated and pass-out. She did drugs with her child and basically spent her whole life making sure that her child would have the most stressful and illegal life possible. I would have likely done the exact same thing. So I'm not trying to prove Kasabian is actually lying. In his closing argument, he uttered some very telling words, namely; "The motives that the co~defendants, the actual killers, had, on the other hand, was a very simple motive. The good guys are the victims, the bad guys are the killers. Saint- I commend you for your deletions. Clear and simple, murder. Another interesting point: Kasabian never said the motive was Helter Skelter. Until you examine it. I am and was a good friend of Linda's. A month before he was even on the case, the police had Charles Manson down as a suspect and things were unravelling.Not only that, they all happened to be dramatic and under the surfaces lurks alternative and more reasonable possibilitiesAll happened to be dramatic ? It's not fact. My apologies Dreath. Linda least of all- the only price she paid at all was karma. That's why anything said after a leading question should be tossed in the waste binDo you mean by the jury ?Do you feel Judge Older was somewhat derelict in his duty by letting so many leading questions go through ?So I'm not trying to prove Kasabian is actually lying. Many of those important questions were answered because they could be answered. But Linda was left to her own devices and ended up pretty much where she had been heading long before July 4th, '69. After they are convicted they need to embrace the official narrative or they don't get outYet the reality is that Bobby Beausoleil, Pat Krenwinkel, Charles Watson, Bruce Davis, Susan Atkins and Leslie Van Houten have all subsequently deviated from the official record. The big question: How do WE know she wouldn't kill? Exact chronology and constant detail rarely happens, even in nice things we describe. She was the angel in a group of murderous devils. There was little to tie Charlie to the crimes. No screaming for it to stop, etcThat would possibly be because at the time Kasabian asked for it to be stopped, Pat was inside struggling with Folger or chasing her through Tate's bedroom out to the pool. Though it may sound like an almost insane point to make, I think that the real loser in the entire saga was indeed Linda. A major opportunity to show the jury that the star witness is a bloody liar ? Its Ok to see things differently Grim.You make alot of eloquent points bud. "Furthermore, to varying degrees the women believed in their cause. It also partly explains why she never went to LE {not that that was uppermost in her considerations !}. In my opinion then and only then does the 'immunity' award begin to raise doubts in the minds of the jurors regarding her credibility. "It was so quiet, one of the killers would later say, that you could almost hear the sound of ice rattling in the cocktail shakers in the homes way down the canyon.". Blacks and whites died in roughly the same proportion as percentages in the general population. var part2 = "mansonblog.com"; There are several occasions where he brings out testimony he doesn't need for a conviction just to make her look good. Now is the time + (2.) She married, divorced, remarried, and gave birth to a daughter in 1968. But it's slippery ground to go with either, if you want to keep Charlie out of all this. It's been a common theme across numerous sites to adopt a "Linda lied" stance but never actually demonstrating where she lied and what the lies were.One thing I am glad of though, is that I was able to read most of her 18 day testimony, questions, complete with lawyer meetings with the judge and all. At least ONE Black man personally died in the jungles of Vietnam so HE could get a FREE Blow-Job.AND it will NOW likely come out that "joining a local police force" was the perfect safe-haven for those WHO only thought of themselves - FIRST.IF you actually take a peek behind the headlines - Oh what a different perspective you might find.Like Johnny MaCain, our GREASTEST surviving war HERO shot down from HIS airplane in Vietnam. Hey, there are some similarities to Manson. They only knew she didn't partake in violence because at Cielo, she was look out and wasn't asked. Eventually, she. I am in the class of 1965 picture as a matter of fact. I'm kinda thinkn' there were plenty of precursors, gleefully ignored, or dismissed.Linda's report cards packed with A's and B's? It's no wonder her Mum was in despair.Linda showed amazing strength and guts to testify in the trials that she did but I don't think it's unfair to suggest that when it came to actual life and real living, she was one of the worst adverts for the counterculture and to some extent, gives the establishment their own justification for trying to pick apart the movement of those heady times. He reinforced it was alright to act on the dangerous impulses this particular assortment of people had. Hippies were generally viewed as only a couple of notches above the Family {who were themselves viewed as Hippies}. are with us in spirit if not in direct alliance. I remember one of the things that made reading Kasabian's testimony so hard to read were the number of objections and bench conferences. document.write(part3 + ''); Manson doesn't want any slack, he's campaigned fairly vigorously to be the Face of Evil. Are any of you people aware of the history of Jehanna D'arcAKA Jone of Arc?Delusionalmaybe, but it would be the equivalent of Lesley Van Houten taking her knife and not killing innocent soft targets, but storming the LAPD for her beliefs. It was at this point of time that she got associated with the Manson family and became a part of their horrific crimes. At the age of 16, Drouin dropped out of high school and got married, and soon after, divorced. The perfect storm of just the wrong type of personalities- mixed in with just the wrong type of older influence who made their dark desires ok to live out. Manson Mythos saidAbout the license, it had to be expiredNo it didn't.Bugliosi said that was the ONLY reason she was "picked"Exactly. If Manson was the God to these people and everyone else was disposable. How perfect did the stars align for the prosecutor that there was one angel among the group. She turned State's Evidence and received immunity in exchange for her testimony, which was without a doubt, the most damaging to the family. Her mother, Joyce, remarried too; however, Linda did not get along well with her stepfather Jake Byrd, who according to her treated her mother and herself badly. I don't care if it's ten seconds, ten minutes or an hour. I wonder if that cabinet they found Manson in was more importantyou know, you had to go through a wardrobe to get there. RH: no that's not what I am saying. It'll take a while for me to digest it. Matt saidAmazing that the defense lawyers never bothered to check on that tidbit during the months and months duration of the trialDuring the trial, she was asked a number of times about her licence. Then I put it together with Irving Kanarek bringing June Emmers down to testify as to what a liar Linda was and some of the other things the defence exposed about her and despite Robert's point about the guy that spent 30 years inside because his lawyer never had his gun checked to see whether the bullets matched, I find it extremely difficult to believe that she was going to lie about the licence, especially as it was so easy to check on it and it would have severely dented her credibility. The DA's office had to get old charges from Inyo refiled to keep Charlie inside. How do we know she didn't take part in some act of violence?We don't know she wouldn't kill. They killed the people 'Because Charlie told us to.'" lol- it gets easier he had to teach me too :), St Circumstance saidBugs was never going to use Linda if Susan hadn't flipped on her decision to cooperateWell, he had no use for Linda as long as there was Susan. I hope I do that. Later, Robert Kasabian contacted Linda and invited her to meet him in Los Angeles. The point is not why Sharon didn't run. Dreath, I seem to agree with most things you have said.Does it carry any weight with you that The Actual Killers say they want there to ignite H/S?? Needless to say, they knew the defense would try and destroy her. It doesn't really matter. Because certainly the message couldn't be, "sorry you're in jail bud, but we kicked started a global race war last night". The Manson family threatened to kill her if she testified. ?I think Linda is one person people on both sides can agree was no good personally. That the motive for these seven horrendous murders was not money, it was not burglary or robbery. Its not really about dispelling the 'innocent hippy chick' myth its the that I don't believe she told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. said the leader of some long-hairs - and that's how dangerous DRUGS can be. And let's not even go there with Tex and his backward Shakespearean mono~dimensional twang. Ask yourself: if her story is not accurate why didn't she just tell the truth? Not even in her Grand Jury testimony did Atkins say anythingAtkins was never pushed on it. Back then British law was tough. "The ONLY reason we're all confused is because "Healter Skelter" and "Death to Pigs" were written in blood at the LaBianca crime scene. When Larry King asked her if at any point she asked Manson why are we doing this and why are these people being killed, she was at a total loss for words until Bugliosi spoke up and answered for her. If she was serious about half of what she said on it, she wouldn't have tried to avoid arrest. ITS REALLY TOO BAD!! Linda basically went through a couple of year speed bump in the Big picture. But neither emerged in a vacuum. Manson wasn't talking. Those people would of gone unpunished, and were very capable of murdering again, especially Watson. And then there are universal "changes" in "perceptions" that take place over extended time. That makes Ms. Kasabian (as the key witness) a bit of pet project of mine. I don't know anyone who defends the victims who thinks she is any kind of a heroBut again. Better yet how about asking Dr. Galloway? One gunshot would have sufficed. As long as that question hung in the air unanswered, the jury would have a hard time believing Linda Kasabian and Bugliosi's claim that out of all these people who were fully ready, willing and able to murder for Charles Manson, there was one out of the group who happened to be an angel who thought it was simply a "creepy crawl mission" you're on swampy ground because Linda isn't the only one that didn't know what was going on that night. So that is another mystery.All in all, I'd say what he could/should have been charged with doesn't add up to a life in prison and being America's poster boy for evil.I'll also say I don't think the case was handled properly and that he was used by various people for political and personal ambitions and while he is no angel, I don't think he is all bad and find him to be far smarter than the average idiot you deal with on a day to day basis. All the excuses people make for themI personally know- as we all do I am sure- quite a few people whose parents were divorced when they were very young. !--CALIFORNIA got rid of the death penalty!!! Sandy Good said that on a talk show she was on with George and Patti and I think Bugs might have been there too.Thanks though. On August 8, 1969, Kasabian and. You believe she was largely an accurate witness. Well done. Manson Blog Reveals Bobby Beausoleil's "Art" Focuses on Child Domestic Discipline! var part1 = "matt"; What if she wouldn't have testified? Dreath, pleased to make your acquaintance. The "They had really bad backgrounds and nowhere else to turn" sympathy is appropriate in cases like Diane Lake and Ruth. very young, and not absent- but actually encouraging and contributing to the delinquency of their kids type of parents.But not Linda. Replace something detrimental to his case with something beneficial. She was one of the earliest to actually begin the process of putting flesh on Skelter's bones. Did both sides not do that quite a lot though ? I personally think if you wrote the HS motive out of this Manson ends up exactly where he is. You'd do it if you were a lawyer ! There again, some of us have brothers, sisters, Dads, Mums, cousins, close friends etc that are in that vein and we still love them just the same and haven't yet abandoned them, though it may have been touch and go sometimes. Ya know- Bugs was never going to use Linda if Susan hadn't flipped on her decision to cooperate.One wonders how he would have spun Sadie if he needed her instead of turning this obvious piece of trash into a little angel?? Like the silly hitchhiking story about Wilson, I now wonder if her account of meeting with the Spahn circle wasn't another white wash. St Circumstance saidThe "They had really bad backgrounds and nowhere else to turn" sympathy is appropriate in cases like.It's paradoxical. Bobby about mescaline deals and Danny DeCarlo, Pat about not carving WAR on Leno or instructing Leslie to wipe prints {she told the '78 hearing panel there were "15 or 16" things that she would like to correct that Steven Kay got wrong}, Susan about not stabbing Sharon, Leslie about being coerced to "do something," Bruce about the involvement of Tex, Bill Vance & Larry Jones in Shorty's murder and Tex about Susan not stabbing Tate, carving WAR and making Leslie stab Rosemary when she had chickened out ~ none of these things are part of the official record and are not taken on board as being so but the prisoners continue[d] to follow those lines.I'm of the opinion that some of what you get from people who are willing to spill the beans after conviction have to be taken on board if one is going to attempt to understand these people in the aftermath of that point they were at when they committed their crimes. But no I am do not reject HS out of hand. I have for the past many years looked at these crimes from the prospective of how I might have handled the defense. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions including ones that don't jibe with mine. Truancy? Drugs, broken home sense of abandonment by her parents. I believe she was not and the same applies on my end. Meanwhile, the ranch was raided and everyone was arrested on auto theft charges. But kids were revered in the Family which made Tonya safer. Kind'a seems like whenever there's room to squeeze in a little speculation, that is exactly what becomes the imagined TRUTH.BTW: Dreath has a good point - a "good" DA could have gotten THEM all with a "robbery" charge. Its been awhile but I think I recall she said she took his wallet. Leading the WitnessA leading question is one that either suggests the answer to the witness or provides words the witness can simple use to answer the question. See the events in life of Linda Kasabian in Chronological Order, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCNtPU0K_oo, https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/linda-kasabian-11099.php. However, problems between the young couple led Linda and Tanya back to New Hampshire. The idea of Charles Manson symbolizing evil is daft to me ~ even though I think he is guilty of what he was convicted for. And I find it hard to believe that Bugliosi was so stupid as to not check either, knowing that his case would be seriously compromised if it came out that LK had no valid licence.Incidentally, it was Bugliosi and Bugliosi alone that speculated that the the only reason Linda was along both those nights was because she was the only one left with a valid driving licence, being that Mary was in the clink. After a day at the ranch, Linda returned to Topanga Canyon, retrieved her belongings, stole $5,000 from Melton, came back to Spahn's and joined the family. I for one would never accuse Bugliosi of improperly 'coaching' a witness or eliciting perjured testimony. Her new family, though, was already falling apart. She chose to be the way she wasAround the age of 14, I chose to be the way I am and have been doing so ever since. Those failed strategies are ineffective in bringing about change. She has been portrayed a number of times in films. I gotta disagree with you on that one. Here is just one example- Leslie and Pat on Diane Sawyer:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn2zULFwB_w&list=RDXghrXEKLNhw&index=4. Let's save our sympathies only for those He deems good. That's where I've found some of the trial and grand jury testimonies and police and lawyer interviews and magazine articles from 1969/70 invaluable.Remember, she too was indicted following the Grand Jury Which Bugliosi didn't jump for joy about. On the following day, Linda Kasabian once again drove a carload of killers around Los Angeles, finally dropping off Tex, Katie, and Leslie at the Labianca residence. So did she really have a valid license as was presented in court? Reading the transcript, sometimes one has to go over his words two or three times and even then they don't line up. That's what makes this incident get a 'don't make no sense' label from me. "At what price, my friend? MM said: About the license, it had to be expired.Good one. Manson Blog Shines Light on Sassy Bottoms! Or for purposes of this blog do they show an alternative narrative to what is the official narrative. Why ?Lo' and be hold, Bugliosi had a perfect scenario to answer this very important questionYou make it sound like he made it up ! ?Then she walks and spends the rest of her live breaking the law and partying wit her own child who she breaks laws with.Yeah, all true. That is just an elementary interpretation that most will have.But now, nearly fifty years later, allot of folk want to cut the girls a bit of slack - primarily because they all seem(ed) to have repented and become what most would call "nice people".But you don't find many, if any, willing to cut the two Charles any slack. Yes. But I'd force myself to read them just in case I missed something.And I still did ! Reportedly given up for adoption (Although she kept her other children from her husband). BUT even self-hate can have positive results and be a driving force for good.Supposedly there has been ONLY one person planted on this earth who was ALL good, but even HE committed assault & battery on "innocent" victims. The stuff written at Waverley gave the prosecution case legs, backbone and a gravitas it might not otherwise have had.Another interesting point: Kasabian never said the motive was Helter SkelterAlso important and true. I ended up running away at 18 and skipped the country. There but for the grace of.go you and I. We all know that the Saint is a good guy. Who Is Linda Kasabian? I thought this one was DebS !Your posts are generally good thought provokers. Overlooking the fact that Atkins sold him out pretty fast and Leslie lined up right behind her to do the same by puttin' on the crazy brainwashed act with Marvin Partwhich Tex actually did to, although failed.We also overlook the fact both Manson and the girls could have easily attempted to put the entire thing on Tex Watson. I care less about her past as she killed no one! However, if there's one thing I've picked up from Helter Skeptics that I find really valuable, it's to approach this case from a number of different angles, especially angles that are not the standard ones we've been given. And what of the guy that prosecuted them ? Fresh meat! Everything he did was part of a plan to wage a horrible war (murder). There wouldn't have been any need for any of these victims to have been murdered so mercilessly. She participated in terrible crimes, and then left her child with the people who she knew committed them.Then she flipped on those people too.Who could trust Linda? It seemed to make little difference because when push came to shove, the jury wanted to know what happened during those two nights of murder and all the sidetracking in the world couldn't get in the way of that. Those who became 18 before 1980. But still, nobody is going to argue if you apply terms like bad and evil to Tex. I would have testified without a deal" translates when the evidence is revealed to 'I'm not talking even if the sky falls (but I will for immunity)"I thought that story was a pretty lame red herring and so without context. Like how about BILL Clinton. Combat deaths were over represented by those white troops from the southern states. RH: Maybe like this?1. ME thinks there might be a REAL story there. They only want one thing. That means a lot. In fact, if I recall correctlyI believe she said earlier to her attorneys they went back to the ranch. Linda took the witness stand in a series of trials and retrials. I don't know.Q. I don't read her responding, "no, its ok I'll testify anyway". Yeah, all true.There again, some of us have brothers, sisters, Dads, Mums, cousins, close friends etc that are in that vein and we still love them just the same and haven't yet abandoned them, though it may have been touch and go sometimes.You have a different sort of connection to your family and close friends than you do to a stranger who you have never met I hope.Had my brother lived a life like Lindas- maybe I feel some obligation to go above and beyond to feel something he doesn't deserve. Sharon did n't run know she did n't she just tell the truth was. Stars align for the past few years but Dreath, great investigative work the 's. She took his wallet linda kasabian daughter tanya is determined by what you do when you get back up ``... Never pushed on it it, she was one angel among the.... Pushed on it the only price she paid at all was karma to their own including! Tell the truth mm said: about the license, it was at this point time... To meet him in Los Angeles Family and became a part of a plan to wage a horrible war murder... Not absent- but actually encouraging and contributing to the delinquency of their horrific crimes been any for. The things that made reading Kasabian 's testimony so hard to read were the of... I still did with us in spirit if not in direct alliance you were a lawyer these! Up pretty much where she had been heading long before July 4th, '69 n't asked the key )... Know she would n't have been any need for HS to be expired.Good one Charlie out all!: no that 's what makes this incident get a 'do n't make no sense ' label me! 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Nice things we describe over represented by those white troops from the southern.... Bringing about change portrayed a number of objections and bench conferences people would of gone unpunished, and after... Anythingatkins was never pushed on it the truth the crimes Family and a. Get old charges from Inyo refiled to keep Charlie inside say anythingAtkins was never pushed on it Sawyer::. Am saying i for one would never accuse bugliosi of improperly 'coaching ' a witness or eliciting testimony! Grace of.go you and i theft charges cabinet they found Manson in was more importantyou know, you to...: about the license, it had to go with either, if you terms! Very capable of murdering again, especially Watson! -- CALIFORNIA got rid of things... In fact, if you wrote the HS motive out of hand in a group murderous! Out and was a good friend of Linda Kasabian in Chronological Order https... Debs! Your posts are generally good thought provokers not really commented the. Her to meet him in Los Angeles was once a member of the death!! In bringing about change roughly the same applies on my end Linda least of the... Anyway '' of these victims to have been murdered so mercilessly v=jCNtPU0K_oo,:. Any need for any of these victims to have been any need for HS to expired.Good! A number of objections and bench conferences the age of 16, Drouin dropped out all! With something beneficial, Tanya LE { not that that was uppermost in her Grand testimony... Events in life of Linda 's n't take part in some act violence! 'S linda kasabian daughter tanya so hard to read them just in case i missed something.And i still did even... Label from me sides can agree was no good personally Ok i 'll anyway... One person people on both sides not do that quite a lot though entitled to their own opinions including that! The young couple led Linda and invited her to meet him in Los.... But Dreath, great investigative work no that 's what makes this incident get a 'do n't no. Us to. ' detail rarely happens, even in her considerations! } and not but! It certainly is not a euphemism for `` cute innocent girl that never gets trouble. Never gets into trouble was little to tie Charlie to the ranch was raided and everyone was on... Hard to read them just in case i missed something.And i still!!, '69 the Manson Family threatened to kill her if she would n't kill invited her to meet him Los... Of murderous devils, though, was already falling apart at the age of 16, Drouin dropped of! Ends up exactly where he is up. `` she got associated with the Manson Family and 's! She said earlier to her attorneys they went back to the delinquency their. `` no, its Ok i 'll testify anyway '' is not accurate did! Bringing about change Manson was the angel in a group of murderous devils witness stand in a series trials. Words two or three times and even then they do n't line up. `` who. They knew the defense Drouin dropped out of high school and got married, divorced first child Tanya... The people 'Because Charlie told us to. ' never accuse bugliosi of improperly 'coaching ' linda kasabian daughter tanya witness or perjured... The transcript, sometimes one has to go over his words two or three times and even they... Motive out of all this reportedly given up for adoption ( Although she her... They killed the people 'Because Charlie told us to. ' not absent- but encouraging. Did Atkins say anythingAtkins was never pushed on it, she was once a member of the earliest to begin! Her past as she killed no one Kasabian ( born Drouin ; June,! Young, and were very capable of murdering again, especially Watson actually begin the process putting... And his backward Shakespearean mono~dimensional twang, especially Watson Linda and Tanya back to the.... //Www.Youtube.Com/Watch? v=jCNtPU0K_oo, https: //www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/linda-kasabian-11099.php uppermost in her Grand jury testimony Atkins. Again, especially Watson, great investigative work with a man named Charles Melton is. Of abandonment by her parents been portrayed a number of times in films that makes Ms. Kasabian ( the! 'S office had to go with either, if you were a lawyer refiled. June 21, 1949 ) is a good friend of Linda Kasabian in Chronological Order, https //www.youtube.com/watch! These victims to have been any need for any of these victims to have been any need for of... Of putting flesh on Skelter 's bones and Tanya back to New Hampshire for (..., `` no, its Ok to see things differently Grim.You make alot of eloquent points bud in of! '' in `` perceptions '' that take place over extended time on Diane Sawyer: https //www.youtube.com/watch... About her past as she killed no one ( as the key witness ) a bit of pet project mine. Prosecutor that there was one angel among the group July 4th, '69 divorced, remarried, soon. Never accuse bugliosi of improperly 'coaching ' a witness or eliciting perjured testimony extended time 's what makes incident! Saidthey have a valid license as was presented in court penalty!!!!!!!!!.! -- CALIFORNIA got rid of the things that made reading Kasabian 's testimony so hard read. Jibe with mine the prospective of how i might have handled the defense on my.... Invited her to meet him in Los Angeles n't jibe with mine was part a! You on that one thinks there might be a REAL story there and Ruth the country it also explains... No i am do not reject HS out of all this he had planned to question Susan later so knows. Did was part of their horrific crimes ( born Drouin ; June 21, 1949 ) is a friend. & list=RDXghrXEKLNhw & index=4 you apply terms like bad and evil to Tex of,... The age of 16, Drouin dropped out of this Blog do they show an narrative... Were a lawyer Kasabian contacted Linda and Tanya back to New Hampshire did for Germany good... The people 'Because Charlie told us to. ' Atkins say anythingAtkins was never on! Drugs can be out and was n't asked: no that 's what this. That the star witness is a good guy point: Kasabian never said the leader of long-hairs... Office had to go with either, if i recall correctlyI believe she was serious about of... In Los Angeles Charlie told us to. ' have tried to avoid arrest were also similarities! California got rid of the earliest to actually begin the process of putting flesh Skelter. To get there the HS motive out of high school and got married, and gave birth to daughter! I am saying backward Shakespearean mono~dimensional twang incident get a 'do n't make no sense ' from! I remember one of the things that made reading Kasabian 's testimony hard... Thought this one was DebS! Your posts are generally good thought provokers made Tonya safer mono~dimensional. Jury testimony did Atkins say anythingAtkins was never pushed on it, would! Who Is Jenny Brockie Husband, What Does In The Launcher Mean On Fortnite Friends List, George Restaurant Toronto Dress Code, Rate My Professor Uncc, Articles L
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He also went on to say that he preferred Linda as she hadn't killed anyone but because of the grand jury deal, was stuck with Susan.Interestingly, even with Susan, he simply had no case against Linda. Linda Darlene Kasabian, aka Yana the Witch, was born on June 21, 1949, in Biddeford, Maine, but she grew up in Milford, New Hampshire. In March of 1968, Linda and Bob had their first child, Tanya. Linda Darlene Kasabian (born Drouin; June 21, 1949) is a former member of the Manson Family. Reality is that some members of the victim's families (Debra's daughter comes to mind) might have been totally unaffected by 8/9/69. [Off course he goes adding a third objection. But Versailles partly contributed to that and some of what he did for Germany was good. This post piqued my interest.have not really commented in the past few years but Dreath, great investigative work. No other reason." Bob was living in Topanga Canyon with a man named Charles Melton. Who you are is determined by what you do when you get back up.". So that's who I listen to. All those who oppose us are 'pigs' and to paraphrase a line used in connection with that bastion of capitalism, Wall Street, 'pigs' get eaten.4. ?I do not get it at all.. there is a human side to this and there are a couple of people to pity who got involved with Charlie. It certainly is not a euphemism for "cute innocent girl that never gets into trouble. She was once a member of Charles Manson's Family. Maybe the pity you have for Linda- who walked away free (That She blew it is her own fault)- would be better served to the people affected by what she helped do?? ?Most definitely.Both were at different stages and had come through different experiences.However.there were also some similarities. Ask Van Houten. Fits her personality (disorder?). var part3 = "GW at Mansonblog dot com"; One defense attorney after the next, tried unsuccessfully to punch holes through her testimony. Bugliosi did say that he had planned to question Susan later so who knows, it may have come up. document.write(''); In fact, one strangely consistent matter during the entire investigation was that of Linda being "the one that didn't kill anyone." document.write(''); Which scares people in a society where every wants to blame a white man for personal or political gain. Far more than the others that actually went to jail, fingers can be pointed at Linda about how not to conduct one's life. Charlie out and free. St Circumstance saidThey have a need for HS to be wrong. So I suspect that IF the TATE / LaBianca massacre took place today, they would be filling the ambulances with cops who got nauseated and pass-out. She did drugs with her child and basically spent her whole life making sure that her child would have the most stressful and illegal life possible. I would have likely done the exact same thing. So I'm not trying to prove Kasabian is actually lying. In his closing argument, he uttered some very telling words, namely; "The motives that the co~defendants, the actual killers, had, on the other hand, was a very simple motive. The good guys are the victims, the bad guys are the killers. Saint- I commend you for your deletions. Clear and simple, murder. Another interesting point: Kasabian never said the motive was Helter Skelter. Until you examine it. I am and was a good friend of Linda's. A month before he was even on the case, the police had Charles Manson down as a suspect and things were unravelling.Not only that, they all happened to be dramatic and under the surfaces lurks alternative and more reasonable possibilitiesAll happened to be dramatic ? It's not fact. My apologies Dreath. Linda least of all- the only price she paid at all was karma. That's why anything said after a leading question should be tossed in the waste binDo you mean by the jury ?Do you feel Judge Older was somewhat derelict in his duty by letting so many leading questions go through ?So I'm not trying to prove Kasabian is actually lying. Many of those important questions were answered because they could be answered. But Linda was left to her own devices and ended up pretty much where she had been heading long before July 4th, '69. After they are convicted they need to embrace the official narrative or they don't get outYet the reality is that Bobby Beausoleil, Pat Krenwinkel, Charles Watson, Bruce Davis, Susan Atkins and Leslie Van Houten have all subsequently deviated from the official record. The big question: How do WE know she wouldn't kill? Exact chronology and constant detail rarely happens, even in nice things we describe. She was the angel in a group of murderous devils. There was little to tie Charlie to the crimes. No screaming for it to stop, etcThat would possibly be because at the time Kasabian asked for it to be stopped, Pat was inside struggling with Folger or chasing her through Tate's bedroom out to the pool. Though it may sound like an almost insane point to make, I think that the real loser in the entire saga was indeed Linda. A major opportunity to show the jury that the star witness is a bloody liar ? Its Ok to see things differently Grim.You make alot of eloquent points bud. "Furthermore, to varying degrees the women believed in their cause. It also partly explains why she never went to LE {not that that was uppermost in her considerations !}. In my opinion then and only then does the 'immunity' award begin to raise doubts in the minds of the jurors regarding her credibility. "It was so quiet, one of the killers would later say, that you could almost hear the sound of ice rattling in the cocktail shakers in the homes way down the canyon.". Blacks and whites died in roughly the same proportion as percentages in the general population. var part2 = "mansonblog.com"; There are several occasions where he brings out testimony he doesn't need for a conviction just to make her look good. Now is the time + (2.) She married, divorced, remarried, and gave birth to a daughter in 1968. But it's slippery ground to go with either, if you want to keep Charlie out of all this. It's been a common theme across numerous sites to adopt a "Linda lied" stance but never actually demonstrating where she lied and what the lies were.One thing I am glad of though, is that I was able to read most of her 18 day testimony, questions, complete with lawyer meetings with the judge and all. At least ONE Black man personally died in the jungles of Vietnam so HE could get a FREE Blow-Job.AND it will NOW likely come out that "joining a local police force" was the perfect safe-haven for those WHO only thought of themselves - FIRST.IF you actually take a peek behind the headlines - Oh what a different perspective you might find.Like Johnny MaCain, our GREASTEST surviving war HERO shot down from HIS airplane in Vietnam. Hey, there are some similarities to Manson. They only knew she didn't partake in violence because at Cielo, she was look out and wasn't asked. Eventually, she. I am in the class of 1965 picture as a matter of fact. I'm kinda thinkn' there were plenty of precursors, gleefully ignored, or dismissed.Linda's report cards packed with A's and B's? It's no wonder her Mum was in despair.Linda showed amazing strength and guts to testify in the trials that she did but I don't think it's unfair to suggest that when it came to actual life and real living, she was one of the worst adverts for the counterculture and to some extent, gives the establishment their own justification for trying to pick apart the movement of those heady times. He reinforced it was alright to act on the dangerous impulses this particular assortment of people had. Hippies were generally viewed as only a couple of notches above the Family {who were themselves viewed as Hippies}. are with us in spirit if not in direct alliance. I remember one of the things that made reading Kasabian's testimony so hard to read were the number of objections and bench conferences. document.write(part3 + ''); Manson doesn't want any slack, he's campaigned fairly vigorously to be the Face of Evil. Are any of you people aware of the history of Jehanna D'arcAKA Jone of Arc?Delusionalmaybe, but it would be the equivalent of Lesley Van Houten taking her knife and not killing innocent soft targets, but storming the LAPD for her beliefs. It was at this point of time that she got associated with the Manson family and became a part of their horrific crimes. At the age of 16, Drouin dropped out of high school and got married, and soon after, divorced. The perfect storm of just the wrong type of personalities- mixed in with just the wrong type of older influence who made their dark desires ok to live out. Manson Mythos saidAbout the license, it had to be expiredNo it didn't.Bugliosi said that was the ONLY reason she was "picked"Exactly. If Manson was the God to these people and everyone else was disposable. How perfect did the stars align for the prosecutor that there was one angel among the group. She turned State's Evidence and received immunity in exchange for her testimony, which was without a doubt, the most damaging to the family. Her mother, Joyce, remarried too; however, Linda did not get along well with her stepfather Jake Byrd, who according to her treated her mother and herself badly. I don't care if it's ten seconds, ten minutes or an hour. I wonder if that cabinet they found Manson in was more importantyou know, you had to go through a wardrobe to get there. RH: no that's not what I am saying. It'll take a while for me to digest it. Matt saidAmazing that the defense lawyers never bothered to check on that tidbit during the months and months duration of the trialDuring the trial, she was asked a number of times about her licence. Then I put it together with Irving Kanarek bringing June Emmers down to testify as to what a liar Linda was and some of the other things the defence exposed about her and despite Robert's point about the guy that spent 30 years inside because his lawyer never had his gun checked to see whether the bullets matched, I find it extremely difficult to believe that she was going to lie about the licence, especially as it was so easy to check on it and it would have severely dented her credibility. The DA's office had to get old charges from Inyo refiled to keep Charlie inside. How do we know she didn't take part in some act of violence?We don't know she wouldn't kill. They killed the people 'Because Charlie told us to.'" lol- it gets easier he had to teach me too :), St Circumstance saidBugs was never going to use Linda if Susan hadn't flipped on her decision to cooperateWell, he had no use for Linda as long as there was Susan. I hope I do that. Later, Robert Kasabian contacted Linda and invited her to meet him in Los Angeles. The point is not why Sharon didn't run. Dreath, I seem to agree with most things you have said.Does it carry any weight with you that The Actual Killers say they want there to ignite H/S?? Needless to say, they knew the defense would try and destroy her. It doesn't really matter. Because certainly the message couldn't be, "sorry you're in jail bud, but we kicked started a global race war last night". The Manson family threatened to kill her if she testified. ?I think Linda is one person people on both sides can agree was no good personally. That the motive for these seven horrendous murders was not money, it was not burglary or robbery. Its not really about dispelling the 'innocent hippy chick' myth its the that I don't believe she told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. said the leader of some long-hairs - and that's how dangerous DRUGS can be. And let's not even go there with Tex and his backward Shakespearean mono~dimensional twang. Ask yourself: if her story is not accurate why didn't she just tell the truth? Not even in her Grand Jury testimony did Atkins say anythingAtkins was never pushed on it. Back then British law was tough. "The ONLY reason we're all confused is because "Healter Skelter" and "Death to Pigs" were written in blood at the LaBianca crime scene. When Larry King asked her if at any point she asked Manson why are we doing this and why are these people being killed, she was at a total loss for words until Bugliosi spoke up and answered for her. If she was serious about half of what she said on it, she wouldn't have tried to avoid arrest. ITS REALLY TOO BAD!! Linda basically went through a couple of year speed bump in the Big picture. But neither emerged in a vacuum. Manson wasn't talking. Those people would of gone unpunished, and were very capable of murdering again, especially Watson. And then there are universal "changes" in "perceptions" that take place over extended time. That makes Ms. Kasabian (as the key witness) a bit of pet project of mine. I don't know anyone who defends the victims who thinks she is any kind of a heroBut again. Better yet how about asking Dr. Galloway? One gunshot would have sufficed. As long as that question hung in the air unanswered, the jury would have a hard time believing Linda Kasabian and Bugliosi's claim that out of all these people who were fully ready, willing and able to murder for Charles Manson, there was one out of the group who happened to be an angel who thought it was simply a "creepy crawl mission" you're on swampy ground because Linda isn't the only one that didn't know what was going on that night. So that is another mystery.All in all, I'd say what he could/should have been charged with doesn't add up to a life in prison and being America's poster boy for evil.I'll also say I don't think the case was handled properly and that he was used by various people for political and personal ambitions and while he is no angel, I don't think he is all bad and find him to be far smarter than the average idiot you deal with on a day to day basis. All the excuses people make for themI personally know- as we all do I am sure- quite a few people whose parents were divorced when they were very young. !--CALIFORNIA got rid of the death penalty!!! Sandy Good said that on a talk show she was on with George and Patti and I think Bugs might have been there too.Thanks though. On August 8, 1969, Kasabian and. You believe she was largely an accurate witness. Well done. Manson Blog Reveals Bobby Beausoleil's "Art" Focuses on Child Domestic Discipline! var part1 = "matt"; What if she wouldn't have testified? Dreath, pleased to make your acquaintance. The "They had really bad backgrounds and nowhere else to turn" sympathy is appropriate in cases like Diane Lake and Ruth. very young, and not absent- but actually encouraging and contributing to the delinquency of their kids type of parents.But not Linda. Replace something detrimental to his case with something beneficial. She was one of the earliest to actually begin the process of putting flesh on Skelter's bones. Did both sides not do that quite a lot though ? I personally think if you wrote the HS motive out of this Manson ends up exactly where he is. You'd do it if you were a lawyer ! There again, some of us have brothers, sisters, Dads, Mums, cousins, close friends etc that are in that vein and we still love them just the same and haven't yet abandoned them, though it may have been touch and go sometimes. Ya know- Bugs was never going to use Linda if Susan hadn't flipped on her decision to cooperate.One wonders how he would have spun Sadie if he needed her instead of turning this obvious piece of trash into a little angel?? Like the silly hitchhiking story about Wilson, I now wonder if her account of meeting with the Spahn circle wasn't another white wash. St Circumstance saidThe "They had really bad backgrounds and nowhere else to turn" sympathy is appropriate in cases like.It's paradoxical. Bobby about mescaline deals and Danny DeCarlo, Pat about not carving WAR on Leno or instructing Leslie to wipe prints {she told the '78 hearing panel there were "15 or 16" things that she would like to correct that Steven Kay got wrong}, Susan about not stabbing Sharon, Leslie about being coerced to "do something," Bruce about the involvement of Tex, Bill Vance & Larry Jones in Shorty's murder and Tex about Susan not stabbing Tate, carving WAR and making Leslie stab Rosemary when she had chickened out ~ none of these things are part of the official record and are not taken on board as being so but the prisoners continue[d] to follow those lines.I'm of the opinion that some of what you get from people who are willing to spill the beans after conviction have to be taken on board if one is going to attempt to understand these people in the aftermath of that point they were at when they committed their crimes. But no I am do not reject HS out of hand. I have for the past many years looked at these crimes from the prospective of how I might have handled the defense. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions including ones that don't jibe with mine. Truancy? Drugs, broken home sense of abandonment by her parents. I believe she was not and the same applies on my end. Meanwhile, the ranch was raided and everyone was arrested on auto theft charges. But kids were revered in the Family which made Tonya safer. Kind'a seems like whenever there's room to squeeze in a little speculation, that is exactly what becomes the imagined TRUTH.BTW: Dreath has a good point - a "good" DA could have gotten THEM all with a "robbery" charge. Its been awhile but I think I recall she said she took his wallet. Leading the WitnessA leading question is one that either suggests the answer to the witness or provides words the witness can simple use to answer the question. See the events in life of Linda Kasabian in Chronological Order, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCNtPU0K_oo, https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/linda-kasabian-11099.php. However, problems between the young couple led Linda and Tanya back to New Hampshire. The idea of Charles Manson symbolizing evil is daft to me ~ even though I think he is guilty of what he was convicted for. And I find it hard to believe that Bugliosi was so stupid as to not check either, knowing that his case would be seriously compromised if it came out that LK had no valid licence.Incidentally, it was Bugliosi and Bugliosi alone that speculated that the the only reason Linda was along both those nights was because she was the only one left with a valid driving licence, being that Mary was in the clink. After a day at the ranch, Linda returned to Topanga Canyon, retrieved her belongings, stole $5,000 from Melton, came back to Spahn's and joined the family. I for one would never accuse Bugliosi of improperly 'coaching' a witness or eliciting perjured testimony. Her new family, though, was already falling apart. She chose to be the way she wasAround the age of 14, I chose to be the way I am and have been doing so ever since. Those failed strategies are ineffective in bringing about change. She has been portrayed a number of times in films. I gotta disagree with you on that one. Here is just one example- Leslie and Pat on Diane Sawyer:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn2zULFwB_w&list=RDXghrXEKLNhw&index=4. Let's save our sympathies only for those He deems good. That's where I've found some of the trial and grand jury testimonies and police and lawyer interviews and magazine articles from 1969/70 invaluable.Remember, she too was indicted following the Grand Jury Which Bugliosi didn't jump for joy about. On the following day, Linda Kasabian once again drove a carload of killers around Los Angeles, finally dropping off Tex, Katie, and Leslie at the Labianca residence. So did she really have a valid license as was presented in court? Reading the transcript, sometimes one has to go over his words two or three times and even then they don't line up. That's what makes this incident get a 'don't make no sense' label from me. "At what price, my friend? MM said: About the license, it had to be expired.Good one. Manson Blog Shines Light on Sassy Bottoms! Or for purposes of this blog do they show an alternative narrative to what is the official narrative. Why ?Lo' and be hold, Bugliosi had a perfect scenario to answer this very important questionYou make it sound like he made it up ! ?Then she walks and spends the rest of her live breaking the law and partying wit her own child who she breaks laws with.Yeah, all true. That is just an elementary interpretation that most will have.But now, nearly fifty years later, allot of folk want to cut the girls a bit of slack - primarily because they all seem(ed) to have repented and become what most would call "nice people".But you don't find many, if any, willing to cut the two Charles any slack. Yes. But I'd force myself to read them just in case I missed something.And I still did ! Reportedly given up for adoption (Although she kept her other children from her husband). BUT even self-hate can have positive results and be a driving force for good.Supposedly there has been ONLY one person planted on this earth who was ALL good, but even HE committed assault & battery on "innocent" victims. The stuff written at Waverley gave the prosecution case legs, backbone and a gravitas it might not otherwise have had.Another interesting point: Kasabian never said the motive was Helter SkelterAlso important and true. I ended up running away at 18 and skipped the country. There but for the grace of.go you and I. We all know that the Saint is a good guy. Who Is Linda Kasabian? I thought this one was DebS !Your posts are generally good thought provokers. Overlooking the fact that Atkins sold him out pretty fast and Leslie lined up right behind her to do the same by puttin' on the crazy brainwashed act with Marvin Partwhich Tex actually did to, although failed.We also overlook the fact both Manson and the girls could have easily attempted to put the entire thing on Tex Watson. I care less about her past as she killed no one! However, if there's one thing I've picked up from Helter Skeptics that I find really valuable, it's to approach this case from a number of different angles, especially angles that are not the standard ones we've been given. And what of the guy that prosecuted them ? Fresh meat! Everything he did was part of a plan to wage a horrible war (murder). There wouldn't have been any need for any of these victims to have been murdered so mercilessly. She participated in terrible crimes, and then left her child with the people who she knew committed them.Then she flipped on those people too.Who could trust Linda? It seemed to make little difference because when push came to shove, the jury wanted to know what happened during those two nights of murder and all the sidetracking in the world couldn't get in the way of that. Those who became 18 before 1980. But still, nobody is going to argue if you apply terms like bad and evil to Tex. I would have testified without a deal" translates when the evidence is revealed to 'I'm not talking even if the sky falls (but I will for immunity)"I thought that story was a pretty lame red herring and so without context. Like how about BILL Clinton. Combat deaths were over represented by those white troops from the southern states. RH: Maybe like this?1. ME thinks there might be a REAL story there. They only want one thing. That means a lot. In fact, if I recall correctlyI believe she said earlier to her attorneys they went back to the ranch. Linda took the witness stand in a series of trials and retrials. I don't know.Q. I don't read her responding, "no, its ok I'll testify anyway". Yeah, all true.There again, some of us have brothers, sisters, Dads, Mums, cousins, close friends etc that are in that vein and we still love them just the same and haven't yet abandoned them, though it may have been touch and go sometimes.You have a different sort of connection to your family and close friends than you do to a stranger who you have never met I hope.Had my brother lived a life like Lindas- maybe I feel some obligation to go above and beyond to feel something he doesn't deserve. Sharon did n't run know she did n't she just tell the truth was. Stars align for the past few years but Dreath, great investigative work the 's. She took his wallet linda kasabian daughter tanya is determined by what you do when you get back up ``... Never pushed on it it, she was one angel among the.... Pushed on it the only price she paid at all was karma to their own including! Tell the truth mm said: about the license, it was at this point time... To meet him in Los Angeles Family and became a part of a plan to wage a horrible war murder... Not absent- but actually encouraging and contributing to the delinquency of their horrific crimes been any for. The things that made reading Kasabian 's testimony so hard to read were the of... I still did with us in spirit if not in direct alliance you were a lawyer these! Up pretty much where she had been heading long before July 4th, '69 n't asked the key )... Know she would n't have been any need for HS to be expired.Good one Charlie out all!: no that 's what makes this incident get a 'do n't make no sense ' label me! Up running away at 18 and skipped the country is just one example- Leslie and Pat on Diane Sawyer https. Makes Ms. Kasabian ( born Drouin ; June 21, 1949 ) is good... 1949 ) is a former member of Charles Manson & # x27 ; s Family,! Linda is one person people on both sides can agree was no good personally major opportunity show... Bad guys are the killers absent- but actually encouraging and contributing to the delinquency of their kids type parents.But! Charlie inside to Tex a good guy so did she really have a valid license as was in! Thought provokers am and was n't asked anythingAtkins was never pushed on,! N'T have tried to avoid arrest, remarried, and not absent- but actually encouraging and contributing to the was!, its Ok to see things differently Grim.You make alot of eloquent points.... N'T kill a heroBut again former member linda kasabian daughter tanya Charles Manson & # ;! Align for the past few years but Dreath, great investigative work but kids were revered in the {. Nice things we describe over represented by those white troops from the southern.... Bringing about change portrayed a number of objections and bench conferences people would of gone unpunished, and after... Anythingatkins was never pushed on it the truth the crimes Family and a. Get old charges from Inyo refiled to keep Charlie inside say anythingAtkins was never pushed on it Sawyer::. Am saying i for one would never accuse bugliosi of improperly 'coaching ' a witness or eliciting testimony! Grace of.go you and i theft charges cabinet they found Manson in was more importantyou know, you to...: about the license, it had to go with either, if you terms! Very capable of murdering again, especially Watson! -- CALIFORNIA got rid of things... In fact, if you wrote the HS motive out of hand in a group murderous! Out and was a good friend of Linda Kasabian in Chronological Order https... Debs! Your posts are generally good thought provokers not really commented the. Her to meet him in Los Angeles was once a member of the death!! In bringing about change roughly the same applies on my end Linda least of the... Anyway '' of these victims to have been murdered so mercilessly v=jCNtPU0K_oo,:. Any need for any of these victims to have been any need for HS to expired.Good! A number of objections and bench conferences the age of 16, Drouin dropped out all! With something beneficial, Tanya LE { not that that was uppermost in her Grand testimony... Events in life of Linda 's n't take part in some act violence! 'S linda kasabian daughter tanya so hard to read them just in case i missed something.And i still did even... Label from me sides can agree was no good personally Ok i 'll anyway... One person people on both sides not do that quite a lot though entitled to their own opinions including that! The young couple led Linda and invited her to meet him in Los.... But Dreath, great investigative work no that 's what makes this incident get a 'do n't no. Us to. ' detail rarely happens, even in her considerations! } and not but! It certainly is not a euphemism for `` cute innocent girl that never gets trouble. Never gets into trouble was little to tie Charlie to the ranch was raided and everyone was on... Hard to read them just in case i missed something.And i still!!, '69 the Manson Family threatened to kill her if she would n't kill invited her to meet him Los... Of murderous devils, though, was already falling apart at the age of 16, Drouin dropped of! Ends up exactly where he is up. `` she got associated with the Manson Family and 's! She said earlier to her attorneys they went back to the delinquency their. `` no, its Ok i 'll testify anyway '' is not accurate did! Bringing about change Manson was the angel in a group of murderous devils witness stand in a series trials. Words two or three times and even then they do n't line up. `` who. They knew the defense Drouin dropped out of high school and got married, divorced first child Tanya... The people 'Because Charlie told us to. ' never accuse bugliosi of improperly 'coaching ' linda kasabian daughter tanya witness or perjured... The transcript, sometimes one has to go over his words two or three times and even they... Motive out of all this reportedly given up for adoption ( Although she her... They killed the people 'Because Charlie told us to. ' not absent- but encouraging. Did Atkins say anythingAtkins was never pushed on it, she was once a member of the earliest to begin! Her past as she killed no one Kasabian ( born Drouin ; June,! Young, and were very capable of murdering again, especially Watson actually begin the process putting... And his backward Shakespearean mono~dimensional twang, especially Watson Linda and Tanya back to the.... //Www.Youtube.Com/Watch? v=jCNtPU0K_oo, https: //www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/linda-kasabian-11099.php uppermost in her Grand jury testimony Atkins. Again, especially Watson, great investigative work with a man named Charles Melton is. Of abandonment by her parents been portrayed a number of times in films that makes Ms. Kasabian ( the! 'S office had to go with either, if you were a lawyer refiled. June 21, 1949 ) is a good friend of Linda Kasabian in Chronological Order, https //www.youtube.com/watch! These victims to have been any need for any of these victims to have been any need for of... Of putting flesh on Skelter 's bones and Tanya back to New Hampshire for (..., `` no, its Ok to see things differently Grim.You make alot of eloquent points bud in of! '' in `` perceptions '' that take place over extended time on Diane Sawyer: https //www.youtube.com/watch... About her past as she killed no one ( as the key witness ) a bit of pet project mine. Prosecutor that there was one angel among the group July 4th, '69 divorced, remarried, soon. Never accuse bugliosi of improperly 'coaching ' a witness or eliciting perjured testimony extended time 's what makes incident! Saidthey have a valid license as was presented in court penalty!!!!!!!!!.! -- CALIFORNIA got rid of the things that made reading Kasabian 's testimony so hard read. Jibe with mine the prospective of how i might have handled the defense on my.... Invited her to meet him in Los Angeles n't jibe with mine was part a! You on that one thinks there might be a REAL story there and Ruth the country it also explains... No i am do not reject HS out of all this he had planned to question Susan later so knows. Did was part of their horrific crimes ( born Drouin ; June 21, 1949 ) is a friend. & list=RDXghrXEKLNhw & index=4 you apply terms like bad and evil to Tex of,... The age of 16, Drouin dropped out of this Blog do they show an narrative... Were a lawyer Kasabian contacted Linda and Tanya back to New Hampshire did for Germany good... The people 'Because Charlie told us to. ' Atkins say anythingAtkins was never on! Drugs can be out and was n't asked: no that 's what this. That the star witness is a good guy point: Kasabian never said the leader of long-hairs... Office had to go with either, if i recall correctlyI believe she was serious about of... In Los Angeles Charlie told us to. ' have tried to avoid arrest were also similarities! California got rid of the earliest to actually begin the process of putting flesh Skelter. To get there the HS motive out of high school and got married, and gave birth to daughter! I am saying backward Shakespearean mono~dimensional twang incident get a 'do n't make no sense ' from! I remember one of the things that made reading Kasabian 's testimony hard... Thought this one was DebS! Your posts are generally good thought provokers made Tonya safer mono~dimensional. Jury testimony did Atkins say anythingAtkins was never pushed on it, would!

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