dickerson fly rod tapersdickerson fly rod tapers

Dies are not so easy to make that he would have probably have made an entire offset set. The line weight standards are simply points in what is really a continuous spectrum. I fail to see anything in the manor of specifications for your making a point that you feel there is a difference between the two, in fact I would like to show you that they are, under the right conditions, EXACTLY THE SAME. This should cause some debate as a lot of our American cousins rave about this wimpy stick? All tapers are based solely or partially on the combinations of these basic deviations from the SLT. Made several of them. by wefishcane 05/08/09 02:55, Post Dickerson 801611-D - 8ft 3pc 7wt Posted by Jeremy Gray, Aug 30, 2000. (Lew) Parks. Overhanging trees? There should be 20 measurements not 19. I want to build a rod that does what a Dickerson 7613 does when casting and fished. According to Hoagy Carmichael Jr. who filmed a documentary for Boston Public TV, the Payne Rod Co. made approximately 12,000 rods during it's existence. I could probably improve just by buying a new cheap file.. If it's starting at the cork, somebody got their dimensions messed up. The hatch did not materialize and the fish did not rise, which gave me time to think of such things. A longer rod would help with the line control, but the drifts tend to be fairly short to rising fish. It made a fine rod, but you have to smooth out the taper leading into and out of the 45 and 50" stations as the rod was designed for a step down ferrule. Taxes and shipping calculated at checkout, Browse our bamboo fly rods in stock and available now, Browse our collection of reels in stock and available now. the all-around trout rod out here in the Western US. 5 .096 .244 DICKERSON 8013 RBS Special - 8' 2/2 - 5wt- honey colored - the legendary 8013 Special is an impressive and powerful med/fast action all-round trout -- taper miked from a Ray Bergman original shop rod. I will suggest that rodmakers as a whole are not (especially the "classics" who were trying to make a living by banging out rods), but also that minor variances of a few thousandths occurring at random do not have a large impact on the rod actions as a whole. It was normal at the time to fit ferrules to the tip and undercut the butt to fit. 10 0.101 154505 Gift of Heidi Bedford, Yearc. (Larry Swearingen), Sorry about the double question, original question appeared lost in cyberspace. Only lost 1/2 inch in rod length. The butts are just not stiff enough, although, in some, the tips are quite satisfactory. Dickerson Rods. 0.350 I personally have never been able to use them to describe the characteristics of a taper. A true 13-14 step down. (Steve Weiss), Good idea, Steven, but you would have get in line behind me and one of my Garrisons. That's not how they're made, see my previous post, or get a set of old time Leonard, Payne, Dickerson or anyone else's, other than cheep H-I or Montague's which had a necked down female, and measure them, the bamboo opening on both kinds of ferrules is the same on the male as it is on the female. Also, your shorthand doesn't describe where these changes take place, which is as equally as important as the changes themselves. If you know something different about Dickerson's typical varnsh coat, make the appropriate adjustment. But if you change any of these inputs, the taper, length or weight of line cast, the stress curve will no longer be flat. Help from forum members would be welcomed. Powell Rods. (Lee Koch), I primarily use RodDNA for my taper selection. (Mark Dyba), Heh, nothing wrong with that. You could have chosen Tom Fulk's true arc taper as the norm and try to describe the deviations from that. 0.102 No question my friend John Pickard is the way to go for a Dickerson reproduction. 0.205 I deducted .005 for the varnish. All of these factors when considered together give a better picture of the rod than any one does in isolation. As Will predicts, this is a very pleasant and easy rod to cast. (Chris Obuchowski). Lyle Dickerson (1892-1981) has long been known as a pioneer in rodbuilding, due partly to his use of machinery in production but primarily appreciated by fishermen for many of his fast and accurate taper designs. First, no one casts the same. I would agree that one system is not all encompassing and I agree with the selection of evaluating criteria you outlined. The Paul Young Perfectionist. It's been my experience that a straight taper can be a very nice rod when designed correctly; for example a 4wt with a tip of 0.068 and a station rise of 0.013. 0.111 Neither of the Powell's on Hexrod are straight taper, I have no Winston tapers handy. (Will McMurrey), Just very briefly, a Castle Connell taper is a good example, where you have a curious reverse taper in the upper part of the lower half of the rod. 25 .232 .115 Very nice guy. 0.144 It might depend, but only a bit, on what you call "very nice" and I see that your figure for station rise was almost exactly the figure I suggested. maybe someone else has one! Inevitably, if part of the strain is caused by rings ferrules and varnish, as it must be, then its resultant effect will detract from the weight of line that rod will cast. 75 0.279 126179 How would this feel? The American Museum of Fly Fishing is the steward of the history, traditions, and practices of the sport of fly fishing and promotes the conservation of its waters. Just looking for a taper that accommodates the step down ferrule nicely. I have modified these tapers to adjust them for what I think is a more modern feel. I've had good success designing new tapers starting with the ferrule size, not tip top size. ChristmasMissives - ChatRoom - PhotoGalleries - LineConversions - TheJourney - ExtremeRodmaking - Rodmaker'sPictures - Donate - Store. 0.168 3 wt 0.0638 All sections are full length and straight. I like Paynes too! When fishing bamboo for trout I believe the "best" length is an 8 foot rod. It was a rod I hate. 0.360 (Jay Hake). I finally made one for my wife and cut one into 4 pieces for me. 35 0.1695 A Powell B taper by definition is a straight taper. All of the Dickerson tapers I have made using Super Zs have been great. 3 months after I had the guy back on the phone asking me to make another one as its the best rod he has ever had. However many people may like them, does this mean they cannot be improved on? (If memory serves me right Tony Young sells step down ferrules for Dickerson rods, so you may try that. All Rights Reserved. Just basic principles that have been around for years. All Dickerson copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued ferrules & an agate stripping guide if desired. Used but very good serviceable condition. Talk to any of the 'boo boys who used to work at Winston, and they'll tell you Winston tapers are basically straight (I got that straight from Jeff Walker). 1 wt 0.0540 I have a tough time roll casting over about 65' with any rod, no matter how long or limber. 1 2 3 Actually I feel an increase of .030 would be sufficient. $ 1950us w/two tips, DICKERSON 7012 - 7' 2/2 - 4wt- honey colored - medium action, wonderful 4wt$ 1950us w/two tips. What does the taper of a rod that roll cast well look like? The resulting rod won't know the difference and neither will you when you cast it. The best reason that I can give you as to why Dickersons are popular tapers (Along with another Michigan maker Paul Young) is that they are nice casting rods and fit our fishing very well. Variations below this point have more to do with the character of the rod than the line weight. ever wonder why all those 10 1/2/64 Heddons broke at the female ferrule? (Reed Guice). It is obviously also extremely useful to compare one rod with others at the same time. 0.168 10 .110 .254 I like to look at the taper itself and how it compares to a straight line taper, the stress curve, the tip deflection under loading, the shape the rod assumes under maximum loading, the rod weight and the center of gravity. For my money I can think of a couple of rods I like better than anything Dickerson made. by SpringCreek 06/12/16 10:45, Post At the Grayling gathering, Bill Harms gave a presentation of Marinaro's approach to rod design. I have never seen an actual inch by inch measure and measure for ferrules listed that I felt was more reliable than this. As a general rule, a 12/64 gives you a four weight, a 13/64 a five, 14 or 15 a six. That has compensation for the ferrule and the Varnish & Guides. by bluesjay 06/19/16 13:59, Post double taper silk lines at short ranges. I have thougt of the 8013, as a 5 weight. It also is fine on smaller streams. Still looking for a guide to hire for a striper trip to the Bay. As to my question about the ferrules is, your rods say, e.g. I would say it's a strong 7 wt, but it should work well with a 8 WF. by Lee Koch 06/12/16 21:18, Post The fact that a rod has a straight taper does not tell us if the stress curve is flat or slopes up or down. 90 0.329 Can someone email me the taper or point me in the right direction? The 8013 is an 8' 0", 2/2, 5wt., 4.35 oz. Measurements under the handle are obviously estimates. Parabolic is a marketing term and thus entirely meaningless in discussions on rod design. The conversion file will convert tapers for Solid and Fluted rods for quad, penta, hepta, and oct construction. It's the important half, too, the other one is less important than line weight, I refer you to the basic laws of aerodynamics, this post is already too long! Examples would be different techniques or methods used by restorationists and makers. A rod from John is the next best thing to the real thing. However, a straight line taper will create a rod in which the angle of deflection will increase from the butt to the tip at linear (constant)rate. The 6611 has a swelled butt unlike many versions I've seen and is an especially sweet rod. the grip so I did some interpolation. He has some of the original taper ledgers from Dickerson's shop and can clone a rod as well as anyone. And this set of conditions is very narrow. In fact, if you want to design a cane "Parabolic" which will perform as Ritz wanted all you have to do is choose a tip taper you fancy and plonk it out on the end of a fast taper hollow built butt of whatever length you fancy. That his tapers could be surpassed by todays standards? Summers & Co. - Womens Sports ApparelBob with Granddaughter Cara FlyfishingGreat Brown, Rainbow and Cutthroat Fly FishingOutdoor Writer and Used Book SalesFishing and Wing Shooting Guide ServiceGreat Lakes Charter FishingSporting JewlerCustom GunsmithingFine Hand EngravingFine Reel & Rod Cases, 90 River Road, EastTraverse City, Michigan 49696 USAPhone/Fax (231) 946-7923bobsummers@charter.net, 2222 - 7. The 1st station on the butt section is NOT .214, it should be.208@0, then as follows: .214@5 The stepdown in the male is from a 14/64 ID where the ferrule initially goes over the bamboo and steps down to 12/64 ID for the bamboo inside of the male slide. 35 .186 .326 I think we can say that adding more material to a tip section would produce more power and reducing material on the tip section will increase accuracy and delicacy of fly presentation. What physical characteristics make a taper roll cast well. All he needed to do was speed up the butts, preferably with a concave taper form, and he would really have been cooking with gas! The idea is that the butt must not bend, and when it does its only at the very end, if it bends further down then the height of the line above the ground is dramatically reduced and thus fully one half of the "High speed high line" proposition is not met. I'm not familiar with Tom Fulk's true arc taper. You can do all the compensation you like for varnish thickness, ring weight and ferrules but you will still not produce anything like as good as a properly calculated compound taper rod. In fact I've just made a new tip for it as the original developed a kink when being cooked to set off the UHU which no amount of ironing will remove. The 8014 taper was devised later in Lyle's life and reflects both this ma As this was my favorite rod, much foul language followed. Post Bill said that the book he has written on the subject is going to the printers and should be out soon.. (No financial interest.) (John Channer), I have never been able to describe to anyone else how a rod feels to them. I measured the rod after seeing David Ray's posting of an 861711 in his taper library that is accessed from Hexrod. 9 wt 0.0890. Deduct 0.006 from butt, 0.004 from tip. I will add my 2 cents. 30 .216 .099 How drastically do you think it would change the action if I pushed the swell out in front of the handle? I have been working with Bob Norwood's taper program, using it to derive a basic set of reference tapers. (Robin Haywood), I consider a 7 1/2-ft. 5wt. 0.160 As for the ferrule size, I use a 14/64 ferrule. They turn into 5 wts at about 60 feet, up till there, they are are 6 wts. I won't know the difference if it isn't perfect but want to do things approximately correct. Brewer Rods These rods use tried and true taper designs as a starting point. My original Dickerson is an 861711D dated 1936. .288@30 Harry Boyd ----------- Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com maker@canerods.com Aransas.clarks Guide Posts: 301 For those of you that have built this rod, does it flex into the beginning of the handle? That's like saying that only the 49ers could find gold. It's a two piece, 8 foot five weight. The taper I used was from "The Lovely Reed." 15 .258 .144 John Pickard only way to go. (Timothy Troester). I am assuming this is an unvarnished rod. All Dickerson copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued ferrules & an agate stripping guide if desired. I think I can reply for Dennis, as I was one of the guys who measured those rods. This is the equivalent of a Powell B-8.70, a bit slower than the Powell B-9. that drop is a hallmark of all 2pc dickerson tapers. It is quite different that the Garrison math method. by canerodscom 05/09/09 02:32, Post (Will McMurrey), A picture says a thousand words. to use it on trout other than the Yough, Savage River reservoir and some lakes. Using too small a ferrule may be a factor. "And look at the difference in the prices they go for!" (Robin Haywood). (Ted Godfrey), I can say the one I don't like is the one in Ray Goulds fine book, 'Cane Rods, Tips and Tapers', page 85. (Gary Nicholson), I think most rodmakers wouldn't build a rod to sell that they didn't like, but would make one for a customer that they wouldn't use themselves, I know I have. The biggest discrepancies are around the ferrules, and you'll notice in many "classic tapers" flattening of the slope into and out of the ferrules - presumably to make fitting a tapered peg into a cylindrical hole easier. On the other hand, Dickerson was designing rods (most likely) for Michigan waters. (Jerry Foster), I agree. For example a 13 was really a 13.5? (Henry Mitchell), In Dickerson-speak, it would be a size 13 on the butt, and a 12 on the tip. a 3 1/2 wt - were that possible. Over the time I have made rods. in practice however, there is little point in going below 7'6'', really. Daryll Whitehead would be another good choice. Digger Digere. 30 .174 .322 It does not do anything to the action as most of the last 3 inches is inside the ferrule anyway. Chris acquired one shortly thereafter. Its the old problem, everyone wants to tell us what they think the answer is, but they never want to tell us why in terms unequivocal and universal! .248@15 They would be; The Straight line taper is the most basic and then the six major deviations of the SLT. I use it as my Hex rod & for throwing big streamers. Anyway, far too few people concern themselves over what should be the staple obsession of every rodmaker-design. 0.334 Post (Henry Mitchell), Yes but those 2 particular tapers are what many Dickerson aficionados refer to as the 7613 Guide and are much more comfortable with a 6 wt line than a 5 wt. To all of them and their contemporaries we are grateful . 0 0.068 Not that I very much care, these people have a perfect right to their willful ignorance. 80 0.296 121171 0.206 Lyle Dickerson tapered copies Lyle Dickerson (1892-1981) has long been known as a pioneer in rodbuilding, due partly to his use of machinery in production but primarily appreciated by fishermen for many of his fast and accurate taper designs. (Jerry Foster), For some applications, like fishing dries from a drifting boat, it could be even a bit short. Great conversation. Garrison's tapers may have been all right in his day, for the equipment and applications he was designing for, i.e. (Robin Haywood). Start out by choosing your fly rod, and follow it up with a visit to our collection of fly reels. If you want to adjust for a different varnish assumption, or if you want to interpolate differently, then our actual measurements are there for you (or anyone, of course) to do so. All through this process you must be aware of the stress curves as well, you don't want to make changes that will cause a rod to fail. Look at a graph of the rod dimensions. (Frank Stetzer, Hexrod, Taper Archive, Rodmakers Archive). I was contemplating a rod with a 3.5 ft tip section and interchangeable butt sections of maybe 2, 3 and 4 ft lengths. If you want a rod that feels like a SLT then you must compensate for the ferrules and varnish and guides by adding the proper amount of bamboo at the correct points on the taper. Kind of sounds like a pro Pickard crowd here. (Bob Norwood), That is kind of what I was thinking but if the rod is 7'6", that is 90". 15 0.115 163502 There are some differences between their tapers and line sizes, however they are all somewhat medium fast. . I get tired of hearing that kind of comment. You bring up a question I have been trying to work through for some time. Dickerson 7012 (1954) from "the Lovely Reed". I sold one to a co-worker who is a streamer guy and he fishes it with a full sinking 5 wt line and is happy with it. Just a topic to ponder on these slow summer days. Thanks. (Paul Blakley), I have a taper for the Dickerson 7613 and am a little confused. Bob through extensive research determined the tip dimensions for specific line weights and then calculated SLT for each. Just have finish paying for the last kids college. Maybe they were off a little but I have no reason to believe that if his 13 die were 13.5 he would not have marked it thusly. In the original Ritz conception the rod, or the taper, was the tip. (Bob Norwood). More info. 0.138 One of my favorite rods is a linear taper with a "slope" of .290/100". 0.320 That's not a lot to ask is it? Point Dimension (Bob Norwood). An 8014, would be an 8' two piece, with a size 14 ferrule amidships. If you 'hide' columns you can then compare and easily see differences in any combination of selected rod tapers. As a rule I only make #5 rods (like Marinaro) and the bulk of these are less than 7'6". As long as a maker includes the correct ferrule drop, Dickerson tapers are no more difficult to make than most others. Even then I wince about their roll casting deficiencies. I am sure there are situations where a bit more length would be helpful, but who am I to argue with Mr. Dickerson? The other issue is mandrels and they just don't come in 1/128 sizes. (Mark Wendt), I am wanting to build a Dickerson 7012 but cant find a taper that accounts for the step downs. I have made quite a few Dickerson tapers. Should be a very nice rod, good Taper. I just wanted to make the point that there's a difference between a rod with a straight taper and one with a straight, flat stress curve. I think of it as an 8013G. The thickness of varnish of course was just our guess. There are several different specs for this taper out there, three of which I use. The butt was merely an extension pole to keep the tip further from the ground. I thought it was in there, but I didn't have the link, and the CD I got from Lowell is at home. 0.196 And, after you "get used to it" you will fall in love with this rod taper. by cwood 05/08/09 02:51, Post Yes you do have the seemingly limitless variation of moving the point or points and amount of material added or removed along the rod length. The action, for those who are more familiar fishing graphite rods, is quite easy to get used to. We all have devices to try to self describe tapers. If you are designing a rod based on a linear taper and you want to make it a 3 or 4 piece instead of a 2, how would this be taken into account? This is merely about applying engineering principles to designing a rod for a particular application. I recently sold a rod to a customer blind on the phone. And why not? Lyle Dickerson (Michigan) 6-strip Tonkin bamboo Dickerson was a self-taught rodmaker who designed his own rod-milling and planing equipment. (Robin Haywood). This system could also be very helpful to understand why a classic taper feels the way it feels. 0.278 by mosquito 05/08/09 09:33, Post I like 8013's. 85 0.3145 To vary the straight line you can adjust the tip dimension. John P. has the Original Dickerson 7612 taper, a very rare rod but John understandably will not share the taper. Maybe it is the version of the taper they are making, there are several out there. This board is for discussing the collecting of bamboo fly rods, both classic and modern. His total production was fewer than 1,000 rods. I don't particularly like the idea of an "exact" clone, it takes away from the makers personal touch IMHO and never will be the real deal. 4070 Main Street, Take a Garrison. I would love to have the opportunity to cast my perfectionist (or any one of the several I've made for people) against any 7 1/2-foot 5-weight of his choice and compare line speed, distance, accuracy, or any other criterion he would like. So the question - I have been trying to define the specific characteristic that each basic deviation from the SLT imparts to the action of the rod. There are no great tapers and nobody invented anything. F E Thomas. One of our most recognizable rod models with a deep flamed color and crisper action. I don't disagree with any one here in fact I think you are all correct. 0.350 .232@10 Just like the makers of Ping golf clubs, who ban their retailers from selling on the internet, I do not see how it is possible to make a rod for someone without the presence of that person for a considerable time on a casting court.

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