clifford schorer winslow homerclifford schorer winslow homer

], And, I mean, I remember spending as much time as possible in front of that painting, and obviously, you know, that. That's why, if you come to our booths today, you'll see that there are wall fabrics; there are modern interiors. So the Museum of Fine Arts school in BostonI took my one class in Renaissance painting technique. I would have purchased some of the assets; we may have purchased some of the inventory. JUDITH RICHARDS: Mm-hmm. We can cover a lot of auctions in a night. That's not going to happen. [00:50:00]. Three, four years. And I said, "Well, I assume you do if you just bid me up to $47,000." Clifford Schorer Adjunct Professor; The Eugene Lang Entrepreneurship Center at Columbia Business School. And I don't have that desire to have that at home, so, you know, I've been able to sort of, I guess, suppress my immune system enough that the lymphocytes are not attacking every object so I take them home [laughs], if you know what I mean. CLIFFORD SCHORER: But, I mean, I love opening those folders and just finding out what was sold in 1937 to. I wasyou know, I was very much on my own. So, do something to tie it into the Old Masters, either LorraineClaude Lorraineor Poussin orand Cezanne. You know, this sheet, that sheet, squares. And they had to water it with a watering spray gun. CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, no. JUDITH RICHARDS: Because how you define a collection and the price point? So, sure, I read, you know, whatever I could find. I would have left that to, you know, others in the art market to decide whether they would do it. Winslow Homer Home, Sweet Home, c. 1863. If there are other such wonderful stories to tell, keep that in mind; we'll come back to it. It's actually, you knowit's the kernel of what you do as a collector without the headache of the aftermath. Or not. So, it's an interesting, you know, circle. And that's generallyyou know, you build upon the scholars of the past, and the next scholar may say no. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. I mean, you know, when I think back to the Guercino that, you know, I find in a little catalogue, and then I do the work, you know, it is very gratifying to have something, especially something like van Dyck, which is, to me, you know, in the pantheon of gods. CLIFFORD SCHORER: and we put a Reynolds. Yeah, short answer is, we like a schedule of art fairs to just basically move us around geographically. So, I hadit's an unlined painting, so I said, "Well, it's a little fragile." "Oh, okay, thisall this 19th-century porcelain. JUDITH RICHARDS: Well, that's it. JUDITH RICHARDS: Can you talk about any important acquisitions, let's say, around 2005, 2010? And because he has such an enormous collectionhe has one of the great Dutch drawings collections in America, and Dutch metals and bronzes andyou know, we havehe's a cabinet collector, so we can get down and focus on little objects, and we can go one by one by one by one. [Laughs.]. Relatives. And, you know, it's sort of rare that a dealer in 2000 could mount such an exhibition. Every time they issue a word I take it. JUDITH RICHARDS: Where do these wonderful symposiums take place, the ones that are so passionately [laughs], CLIFFORD SCHORER: Well, those areyou know, I'm thinking of very specific ones. Did you ever imagine focusing your entire life on thison collectingin every aspect? And Colnaghi is still extremely ambitious; I think they still have 40 employees, and, you know, their ambition may or may not be equaled by a marketplace that can sustain their ambition, but, you know, time will tell on that. JUDITH RICHARDS: Yes. Came back to public school in Massapequa, Long Island, because that was the most convenient homestead we could use, and failed every class. I am none of the above. And then if I found older ones, I'd be very excited. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So it was very, very pleasing to me to have, you know, the Antwerp Museumyou know, the KMSKAbuy, with their own money, what I consider to be a certain van Dyck sketch, you know, from a very importantyou know, one of his pictures in the Prado, one of his preparatory sketches for one of the pictures in the Prado. Those days are over. So you have to have a different model. Their corrections and emendations appear below in brackets with initials. It was about [00:52:00]. They would have Saturday gatherings where people would set up folding tables. So, CLIFFORD SCHORER: In Spain, in Madrid. Let's see. Or you know, just maybe the one-tenth of one percent could suss it out. JUDITH RICHARDS: So what were some of the early key purchases, and how did theywhy were they goals then and, JUDITH RICHARDS: how did they appear? And he was an art collector. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Collection," I think. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah, the experiences, the moments, and all of that. Not that my collection is that important, but even the idea that I'm sort of peeling off the wheat from the chaff in any way. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Of which I can appreciate; I mean, I understand that. He worked masterfully with both oil paint and watercolors. That market is extremely weak now, and, you know, in a way, it's good comeuppance, because there was a long period of time when all the boats were lifted by the tide, the good, the bad, and the ugly. You know, we saywe say that probably a little tongue in cheek because we know, of course, they would've loved to sell them as archaic objects, even when they weren't. However, the first thing I seriously collected as an adultso, age 17 comes, I start a company, and within six months I'm making money. It was called the Professors ProgramUniversity Professors Program. JUDITH RICHARDS: No, no, no, this is very important, JUDITH RICHARDS: what you were talking about. I mean, it was, you know, sort ofand I think the problem was that he didn't have a lot ofnot even art enthusiasts; they just didn't havethey didn't have the depth of art knowledge they needed on the board at that particular moment. No, no. I do like art storage. He then became a master of sketches and watercolors. JUDITH RICHARDS: So they were very strict with provenance restrictions. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Total coincidence. I guess, what kid doesn't like dinosaurs? And then I promised myself, I'm going to get out of high school and I'm going to go down to Virginia. And I went down there to go to my old cube [laughs], and it was still there. She shifted her little chair over, and I walked by. JUDITH RICHARDS: Did you collect books ever? The angels that were inI believe it was The Adoration of Mary of Egypt, or Maryit was Mary of Egypt, The Last Communion of [Saint] Mary of Egypt. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I have one piece of armor. We've been using their fabrics as our wall coverings in our booths, and, you know, amazing. And, you know, there's a lot out there that I don't know and that every day we have to learn about. And they probably bought it the week before, because the trade was very different back then. Take me through." But, yes, I believe so. That's like a little bit of sleuthing, which I enjoy. JUDITH RICHARDS: You were 18? CLIFFORD SCHORER: All of them. And I had learned four or five other programming languages and shown proficiency in them, just because I knew that they'd be useful. CLIFFORD SCHORER: you know, my dollar would go much farther if I wasif I was, shall we say, buying at the root and not the branch. And then I'm going through a book on Strozzi, and it says Worcester Art Museum. You had to reallythey had to see you a lot before they would talk to you. They had The Taking of Christ by Procaccini; they had a Paulus Bor, who's a very, very rare Northern artist that I admire, and I had underbid the painting at auction. So today I actually have two paintings from that same series. JUDITH RICHARDS: Have there been any surprises that you've come across in terms of this, being involved as you are with Agnew's? CLIFFORD SCHORER: So it's a simple fact of plentiful quantities, disparity in quality that I could see and discern, and you could have entry-level objects at $50. CLIFFORD SCHORER: They painted half a million paintings in the Dutch Netherlands between 1600 and 1650. But, but then, you know, many, many years later, basically, it was all dissipated. [00:10:02], JUDITH RICHARDS: When you started out in this field, did you have a general sense of where you wanted to go? There can beyou know, that's much more of a contemporary problem. And so, you know, I always had space. And heby the time I knew him, he had retired as, I think, the 50- or 60-year chief engineer of Grumman Aerospace, sofor their plants, not for their aircraft manufacturing. Three, four months. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So I went to the director's office, and there's a glass door. We love her. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And Konrad Bernheimer. JUDITH RICHARDS: Whichwhose painting? And I don't think that a manual was consulted more than once. In these sections, we will use the mutate () and add_column () functions to accomplish the same task. So it's very exciting. We have a sort of oath that we take about, you know, things we have personal interests in or things like that. JUDITH RICHARDS: It sounds likegone through all the money. Winslow Homer. Taste-making is a very difficult game, and, you know, obviously, we're outgunned by Vogue magazine, all the way down toyou know, Cond Nast Publications to, you know, you name itto Sotheby's. So I think back then it was much more about a buying strategy, and, you know, I think now I would say, Be very cautious and very slow, because now the market is created to separate you from your money and, JUDITH RICHARDS: And this applies to specifically Italian Baroque or any of the areas you've, CLIFFORD SCHORER: generally speaking, what's happened is the auction market, which used to be a wholesaler's market, has become a mass market, and as such, the marketing techniques employed have become mass-market marketing techniques. JUDITH RICHARDS: Yeah. And how the Chinese merchants were trying to sell you back what you wanted to see. They were the combat correspondents of their day, traveling and living with soldiers. JUDITH RICHARDS: So you're relying on people in the field, aren't you? CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. As they tend to do. And there was one large mud sculpture of a horse on the floor in the lobby at Best Products. You know, that was the biggest problem. Just one. CLIFFORD SCHORER: You know, I mean, I love lending things, and I have a lot of things on loan, and I would like to do more of that. It's a very long cycle, so you can't think about it as "I need a salary this year," you know, from the ownership standpoint. JUDITH RICHARDS: Where is the Gropius house? It's [Nancy Ward] Neilson, Ms. Neilson. I had this Dutch East India commemorative bowl, which I bought very early on, which I was very, very pleased with, which she just sold to a collector who wanted a Dutch East India commemorative bowl, which I think is fun because the Dutch connection, of coursethe Dutch fueled their money addiction and their art addiction by trading. JUDITH RICHARDS: Do you recall his first name? CLIFFORD SCHORER: Think about selling? [Laughs.] No, I was 15 and a half. Noortman was the gallery that was, you know, a very successful Dutch dealer, Robert Noortman. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Well, certainly, don't destroy the art if you can avoid it. You know, milk cartons filled with books. A picture should not reappear three times [laughs] on the market. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Hugh Brigstocke, yeah, and his new associate Odette D'Albo, who is doing new scholarship. So he wasand I knew him when he was superannuated to the extreme. And the Chinese think less about that as deceit than we do. We didsoand I decided to do my homage to Carlo Crivelli. Then we did the Lotte Laserstein, the Weimar German show, where we borrowed from the German state institutions for the first time ever, as I understand it, as a private gallery, borrowed from museums, Berlin specifically. JUDITH RICHARDS: or any of that sort of stuff . [Affirmative.] CLIFFORD SCHORER: So I think of storage as storage, but just good climate control. $14. The galleries in New York are closing that sell old art, because they're retiring. CLIFFORD SCHORER: The MFA. You know, someI mean, certainly, the newer collectors who are in the Dutch and Flemish world, I think they're less scholar-collectors. I'm done. JUDITH RICHARDS: Thinking of boyhood passions, you talked about war, and did you ever want to collect armor? Researchers should note the timecode in this transcript is approximate. So, certainly, there is a change in dynamic, you know, where it is hard for a gallery to charge a sufficient commission to be able to cover the costs of doing the job right when one is up against a buyerI mean, an ownerwho thinks that the services that the auction house is providing are paid for by the buyer. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes, no, no, I mean, I had particular moments in cities, but, yes. And the market was not very discerning, because there were enough people in it to absorb all that material. Jon Landau I certainly know more. [00:50:00], And, you know, Anthony went through the archives and saw this material and knew the artist and apparently, you know, knew people who came to the show and thought it was an amazing show. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Sure. And that was because they could be. [00:16:00]. Then we have a Guercino that came up in New Hampshire that I discovered, but unfortunately, other people recognized it, too, so they drove it up to the sky. [00:34:00]. JUDITH RICHARDS: When you bought that first painting, did you very quickly continue buying paintings? CLIFFORD SCHORER: So, to me, that was that was very exciting. You know? "A loaf of bread is more than 29? So they put Anthony Crichton-Stuart, who used to be Christie's head of Old Masters, in charge of Noortman Gallery. So, I mean, you know, I learned to read a tiny bit. I'm also sendingwherever there is some scholarly interest, I'm sending them out to museums, so that somebody puts a new mind on them, puts a new eyeball on them. JUDITH RICHARDS: and what it stood for. They just didn't have theyou know, there weren'tyou knowwhen the curator was talking about exhibitions, and why this is important and that's not important, there were a lot of questions that were being asked that were derailing the conversations. American artist Winslow Homer (1836-1910) the self-taught master best known today for his scenes of nature and the sea got his start as one of the "special artists" of the Civil War. You talk to them about business; you talk to them about family. So it was a fun little entre into what the dealers did for a living. So those areyou know, those are fun. JUDITH RICHARDS: What kind of institution were you in? I said, you know, "Oh, come on, I'm not going to risk sending a 16th-century painting for you to do that." However, the Sebastiano Ricci that they had was also a masterpiece, and, you know, I spent a lot of time staring at it, and I remember the detail that made me think, All right, I'll ask about that as well. There's a lot of blue hair. So I went to Gillette, and they hadthey were looking for a programmer analysta senior programmer analyst. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. But we won't go too far there. Is your name Jim?" CLIFFORD SCHORER: I always liked authenticity in the architecture. Yeah, I mean, that'sthe ones who have open doors will always have my heart. CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, I'm not that interested. Were you in a kind of museum? And when I saw the numbersand it was the same little fudge. And, JUDITH RICHARDS: This little shop, was it going to be in New England, in London, CLIFFORD SCHORER: I had no idea. So I had readI forgot which painting it was; it was the [Bernardo] Strozzi. [00:30:00]. Contact Reference Services for more information. I drove to the border and I said, "I want to walk over the border and get a train to Bosnia-Herzegovina." [00:38:02]. So, no. So it. [00:02:03]. I think I turned 16 right aroundit was in that first year, so that's what I recall. JUDITH RICHARDS: Outside of the United States? ", CLIFFORD SCHORER: You know, I mean, "A Molenaer is more than $20,000?" CLIFFORD SCHORER: I'm trying to think if I'd been to Europe by that age. JUDITH RICHARDS: So it sounds like it was a very smooth transition from being a businessman and a collector to getting involved in the business of art through these interactions, these. And it was a very independent study. Clifford celebrated 56th birthday on May 31. I was walking through the room, and they were giving this lecture, so I sat for the lecture, of course. They were very, very strong. JUDITH RICHARDS: You can be foolish when you're that age. They had a [Hans] Hoffmann of a hare, a painting of a hare, which was, you know, a world-class masterpiece, and they had a Sebastiano Ricci, a big Sebastiano Ricci. JUDITH RICHARDS: Did you ever buy them in the mail, like kids did? Located in the Donald W. Reynolds Center for American Art and Portraiture (8th and F Streets NW), Size: 5 sound files (3 hr., 57 min.) Date. CLIFFORD SCHORER: You're putting a value judgment on it that I, you know, I'm uncomfortable making entirely myself. So you could borrow our Bacon if we can borrow your Rembrandt. And you have to do that, I think, because, again, this is a small market with limited opportunities, and you have to work very hard at the ones you have. His oil paintings were immensely expressive. Then we had a second one that was on the market in Paris as sort of "circle of van Dyck," but as soon as I saw it, I recognized that it was the real deal. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes, I mean, I think if I limited myself to sort of, you know, the quality of the paint, I think, in a way, that would be unsatisfying to me. I was in London less so. I mean, you know, I bought Byzantine crucifixes, you know, just because, you know, I was there. ], JUDITH RICHARDS: That's okay. I mean, it was, you know. I was making a lot of money for three weeks, and I was traveling for three weeks. I mean, paleontology, you have to understand, is the rarity of those objects, compared to the paintings we're talking about. JUDITH RICHARDS: the visual experience is the key. JUDITH RICHARDS: But for you as an individual collector? Do you have aso your approach to lending is to try to be as positive as you can. So, you know, my grandmother was doting on me like a grandmother. JUDITH RICHARDS: Have there been anythis might be my last question. At some point. He was a dealer and, you know, and an ennobled Italian, and it was in his collection. Chief of the Investigations Division, Inspector General's Department, Inspector General's Office (Washington, DC) B ack, George Irving. I needed to think about walls. So, yeah. The Daniele Crespi, which was a very early Daniele Crespi that Otto Naumann, the dealer in New York, had purchased in 1994 as Lombard School. JUDITH RICHARDS: But you started out displaying these 300? You're going to findthere are going to be many more. CLIFFORD SCHORER: The gallery used to own a building in New York before 2008, which they sold. CLIFFORD SCHORER: It has a whale vertebrae, a really good example. CLIFFORD SCHORER: They have their own studio. the answer is definitively, "No." It's Triceratops Cliffbut this is entre nous. JUDITH RICHARDS: How did that interest develop? We know that T Dowell, Tylden B Dowell, and five other persons also lived at this address, perhaps within a different time frame. Have you always maintained fine art storage? The mission changed; the vision statement changed; the facilities are undergoing changes. So, I mean, I rememberI remember buying that because I thought it would be a good decoration. Everyone's retiring. I mean, I'm still waiting for the great Quentin Matsys show. All of that is gone. JUDITH RICHARDS: And did thosewere those thingsdid you consider acquiring those things as well to accompany the painting? CLIFFORD SCHORER: See, I don't want to seem like. JUDITH RICHARDS: During these years, were you reading in that field then? JUDITH RICHARDS: So that was really interesting and enjoyable, JUDITH RICHARDS: to learn what was entailed in. So I actuallyas part of my company, I had a 70,000-square-foot warehouse, which grew to be over a million square feet by the time I quit. I'll look it up afterwards. I had probably 65 of them on walls, you know, with these plate holders and, you know, little arrays. But for me, it's the combination of the conception and the craft, so the conception is very important to me; knowing that [Guido] Reni stole his figure from the Apollo Belvedere because it was here when he was there is interesting to me and Iyou know, to find that out, if I didn't know it before, either by accident or by some kind person sharing it with me, I'myou know, it adds a layer to my experience of the art that's different from my aesthetic experience of the art. And actually, it was very similar to my grandfather, which was not his son but his son-in-law. $17. No, no. ], JUDITH RICHARDS: When you first started, and you're imagining the possibilities of your collecting, did you envision arriving at that level of expertise, where that could be a pursuit, an achievable goal, to discover, CLIFFORD SCHORER: I'm leery of the word "expertise," just as I'm leery of the word "artist." JUDITH RICHARDS: Havein that sense about the object, since you served on the board of Worcester Art Museum, and you've been involved in their acquisitions committee, and you've lent them work, it seems like you are interestedbut I wanted to ask how interestedin the role of the museum, and the role of collector as educator, educating the public, expanding their understanding and appreciation of works that you love.

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